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Offline JeepFever

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The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« on: October 31, 2014, 12:22:35 AM »
I have not named a Jeep before, but thought it might be fun with this one.  This '3A lived some of its known life near Hoover Camp in Virginia. (the president's mountain get-away)

Approx 10-12 years ago, a neighbor up the road from me,� stopped and asked if I would be interested in an old Jeep he had. It was previously owned by his deceased great uncle, and nobody else in the family wanted it when he died. This neighbor kept it for 5 years, thinking he might bring it back to life,  but decided he would never do anything with it.

The price was good,  he gave it to me for free  I was not sure what I was going to do with it, but it seemed complete,  although rusty and banged up. I moved it to my parents' property (my wife did not want another Jeep setting around, haha)

Fast forward to a couple years ago. .  With the kids out of the house, and a little more time, my interest in Jeeps started coming back.  I joined "theCJ2Apage" and really got interested. Unfortunately, I got extremely busy at work, and it took until now to finally bring the '3A home and start working on it.  Part of that delay also had to do with fact that Hoover did not come with a title. I learned that VA DMV has a "abandoned vehicle" process, and thru this I was able to get a title!

My plans are to make this more of a "preservation" than a "restoration". My '2A is a working/trail Jeep, and I like that "old" feel.  This one will stay stock,  keeping as many of the original parts as possible. (and removing all of the modifications) to confess before I begin - > I am an amatuer, so the bodywork etc. may not be done using best methods.  I learn as I go.

The first 4 photos show Hoover in hibernation,  I took these photos on one of my visits to my parents',  when I was contemplating bringing it back to life.

The first photo shows the snow plow frame, and massive wooden bumper.  I am not sure how this Jeep was used, but it sure has a lot of body damage from running into things.
The original color shows in many places, there is a fairly big patch of the tan under the hood in this photo.



A rear view,  showing one of the many pop-riveted patches. When I first looked at this,  I wondered why someone would replace the taillight with a reflector, but apparently this is how they came from factory. :)




I need to find that flip-out vent some day. Tires on front have no tread.


The front tires are shot,  but this one looks almost brand new. Anyone have 3 Cooper Super Tractions they want to sell?  :)



On the trailer headed home . . early October






In our driveway . . let the work begin. . . about the only things I have done at this point are remove the junk, and wrap some electrical tape around the steering wheel,  to keep my hands from get black everytime I touch it. (I will have to find restoration threads on that later)



The wheelhouse has pulled away from quarterpanel,  and is badly dented.


A view of quarterpanel,  with the pop-riveted patch removed.� �I plan to replace some of this,  just too badly dented for me to try to straighten.


A photo after I cut off the plow frame (it was welded to frame in some places, the bumper is welded also. :( what the heck were they doing with this thing to get it so dented up? :)



The floors and hat channels are shot.


.




I decided to start with the rear . . had to straighten the frame member to provide something to bolt to.Some dents to pound out of rear quarter. A closer view of that new looking tire. I am starting to experiment with paint,  to get something close to original tan. Body is too yellow, but the wheel is starting to get close.   Springs are in decent shape.


.

After removing the tailgate surround piece.
 

.

.

The lower portion of the surround was badly dented and rusted,� so I made a new one out of some channel I had in my scrap bin.  It was same gauge,  and already had the 90 degree bend.


.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 03:33:57 PM by JeepFever »

Offline JeepFever

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 12:31:20 AM »

.

Homemade valence panel








I decided it would take way too long to try to repair the rear floor,� if even possible,� so splurged and bought new one from Classic Enterprises� . . here it is just setting in place, to make sure it fits, and lines up with valence etc.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 09:02:17 PM by JeepFever »

Offline squidtone

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 10:10:36 AM »
JeepFever that sure does sure look familiar...the patina, the absence of floors...our Jeeps must be brothers. In a way, I like the front bumper (without the log!)...it's like a badge of honor.
I really like seeing the metal work. Awesome.
Good luck and post often. 
Dave Miles
Presently: � � � � � � � �
03 Rubicon,
50 CJ3A
Past:
01 XJ Cherokee,
87 XJ Cherokee,
85 XJ Cherokee,
83 CJ8,
81 CJ7

Offline athawk11

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2014, 11:34:32 AM »
Nice work on the valance and surround.  What are you using to cut the steel?

Tim
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline Bob W

Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2014, 07:21:05 PM »
I like these build threads! What is the serial number of Hoover?
Bob W

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 10:00:32 AM »
I did not get much time to work on during the week,  but was able to spend some time yesterday. 
One of the tasks was removing the toolbox.  I always have a hard time finding the spot welds.  Even when sanding down the area,  it is not always obvious where the welds are.  In the series of photos below, it shows an attempt at finding them.  It seemed to work well

This shows after sanding.  Not real clear where the welds are.




From the inside,  I drilled 2 small holes just above the flange of toolbox, (to see from outside where it was)  . .  drew a line across the holes . . guessed the center of each weld and drew vertical line . . then measured down at each one.
 



This worked well,  all of the welds were cut out.




For removing spotwelds, I always used a regular drill bit,  but thought I would try something different.  There are various spot welding cutters out there.  This one from Harbor Freight seemed to get good reviews, and it is cheap.  You have to be careful,  sometimes there is no clear indication when you cut thru the first panel, and you might cut thru both. . . . it the photo above,  you can see where I went too far on the righthand holes.



Off the subject of spotwelds, but looking at photos above  - > the layers of paint can be seen  . . from outside in - > the test tan I painted,  white, green, original tan?, original primer? . . my question is if the factory primer would have been red-oxide  I see that, and the tan, in many place on Hoover.



The front of wheelhouse.  I have a question here.  Should the area where I marked 1.25 be flat?  It is not obvious in the photo, but mine is dented down right in that area.  I plan to replace that area with a flat piece from the top line to bottom line




 3A quiz - > what is the purpose of this bracket?  (I actually know, because I read about it previously, but it had be baffled for a while, haha)




Some views of floor currently. I had no idea when I started that I was going to replace so much.  I had originally planned to repair the riser,  but felt it might be easier, and better to replace it.

Hawk,  you asked about tools I use to cut.  They happen to show in this photo,� a plasma torch, and thin wheel on 4.5  grinder.




If you are wondering about the jack between springs and frame,� I am using it to get the frame level.   My plan is to get the frame level at all corners,  then I am using a laser level to make sure the body is parallel at all the various places.





Test fit of the replacement riser



I made the riser from a piece of scrap-bin channel.  It was too wide, so I split it down the middle and welded back together at proper width.  It is .110  steel, so quite a bit stiffer than the original.



« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 03:42:54 PM by JeepFever »

Offline Bob W

Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2014, 02:24:18 PM »
Quote
�3A quiz - > what is the purpose of this bracket?

That is the "downspout" for the tool box lid gutter.
Bob W

Offline athawk11

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2014, 02:25:19 PM »
The mystery bracket is, of course, the drain channel for the water that would be captured by the new and innovative gutter around the 3A tool box.� Funny though, it didn't seem to help save the floors in either 3A I've messed with.

I've found another effective weld cutter is the Dewalt drill bits.� Very similar design to the spot weld cutter.

The front of the wheel house looks like this.� It has a lip on the front that hangs over, and is welded to the riser....



This is a photo of my effort to change a 2A wheel house into a 3A wheel house.


You're making some good progress.� Looks real good.� I wish I had a scrap bin of steel.� Would have sped up the process a bit.



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Offline JeepFever

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 11:54:04 PM »
Quote
I like these build threads! What is the serial number of Hoover?

I like watching them also . .  now I am living one. . I have a whole new respect for those who have gone before.   ;D  . . these projects take a lot of thought and time!

Serial number is 451GB115947

Offline JeepFever

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2014, 12:22:17 AM »
What have I got myself into ?? . . the only thing left of front floor is the tranny hump. Even that is thin at the bottom



.

I was hoping to be able to attach the hat-channel assembly to frame as a foundation for the floor,  but realize now that part of the hat channel is attached to the cowl bracket.

I assume that I am going to have to unbolt the body from frame,             and maybe even remove the fenders in order to cut off and replace this piece of hat-channel ?




When I get some time, I will post more photos of progress.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 03:44:24 PM by JeepFever »

Offline BJ

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2014, 10:02:06 AM »
Ok. I am taking a lot of notes on this. Some major body work as well as some front floors and needed on my Heep also.

Is it simpler to do this floor work with the tub on the Frame or is it simpler to remove the tub and then put it all back together?

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2014, 10:48:30 AM »
Boy is this like deja vu all over again....

You will probably have to at least remove the two front body mounting bolts on either side of the frame, to allow access to the front part of the hat channel..

It seems to me that the hat is only welded in a few places and s a chisel or something similar will take them off the cowl bracket.

Some choose to leave the body on the frame as sort of an assembly jig, to make sure everything is aligned when the time comes to bolt it back together...

Tim (athawk11) separated his tub into two pieces, at the floor riser I believe, repaired each section allowing a little overlap where the floors attach to the riser, and then assembled the tub using the frame as a jig...

you will probably need to remove the fenders....The two center bolts that hold the fender support to the frame thread into the frame so give them a good soak with PB or aerokroil before you try to remove them...

This is how I did mine.....I was in a "patch this and patch that" mode for a long time before I realized that it just wasn't working for me....

1955 CJ-5, A friend for 55 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline JeepFever

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2014, 11:19:04 AM »
Quote
Ok. I am taking a lot of notes on this. Some major body work as well as some front floors and needed on my Heep also.

Is it simpler to do this floor work with the tub on the Frame or is it simpler to remove the tub and then put it all back together?

Since this is my first repair of this magnitude,  I am not sure which is easier.    Others might have some ideas.   In the case of this tub,  it was so rusty that I am not sure what would have happened if it had been removed first.   Once I unbolted from frame,  it was very flimsy.

I was thinking I could leave the cowling bolted to the frame,  then rebuild back to front, the frame would be the �fixture� to ensure that everything was straight and would fit.   I did not notice that the floor hat-channels were attached to the cowling until now.

I think this will be my method ->
 -unbolt the rear of body,  (done)
- repair/replace from rear valence to riser  (done)
- loosely bolt down the rear,  and unbolt the cowling (may have to remove fenders to cut hat from cowl)
- replace hat channels, and bolt to frame
- replace the floor sheet metal
- remove body,  (now structurally sound),  finish welding and patching

Offline JeepFever

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2014, 11:31:46 AM »
Quote
Boy is this like deja vu all over again....


I can see why . .  ;D

It was funny,  after sending my last reply,  the page opened,  and I thought "I don't remember posting a photo of when I set the new hat channel in place"  then I realized that was not my photo.   . . . looks very similar though !!

Thanks, 1955CJ-5 for photo and advice . .  one thing I have been doing since Jeep came in garage is to spray bolts with penetrating oil occasionally.

Offline athawk11

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Re: The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2014, 12:34:51 PM »
My first 3A tub was more sound than yours, so my approach was to take it all the way off and stand the whole thing on edge.� You could still do this, but you would want to screw some additional bracing to the tub so it stays square.� I few well placed 2x4s would do the trick.

 

As Randy mentioned,� my second tub was disassembled and put back together using the frame as a guide.� This required the removal and installation of the tub a number of times as I replaced the damage.� My helper was my wife.� She was always a good sport about it.

The hat channels are the challenge.� To properly secure them to the new floor pans, you almost have to take the tub off�. Unless you like to weld upside down.



I clamped and bolted the channel pieces together on the frame.� I set the tub on top of them to align everything.� I then took the tub off, temp welded the channels in to the correct position.� I finished welding the channel assembly back together, bolted it back to the frame, set the tub back on, clamped the channels to the tub, flipped it all over and plug welded the heck out of it.� It seems like a lot of work, but this tub was a disaster.� I didn�t have a very good starting point, so I had to make sure it would all fit back together properly.












Sorry to clog up you rebuild page with a bunch of my photos.� I guess I could have just linked to my build thread.� If you prefer, I can delete them.� Let me know.

Tim
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A