1961 CJ3B "Gator"

[Rus Curtis]

From my experience, if you push and the pedal slowly moves down to the floor - there is a leak.  Ensure all wheels are dry.  Place a small piece of tape along the fluid line on your remote reservoir.  Push hard and wait for it to travel a measurable distance.  Check the reservoir to see if it's higher (shouldn't be) and while you can check behind each wheel, pulling the drums to see if there's evidence of cylinder leaking may be needed.


If you need to pump to get pedal, it could be a bubble.  I start with the right rear and then work to the closest wheel.  It could also be your shoes need adjusting (cylinders having to travel extra to make contact) or the mc push rod may need adjusting (pedal needs 1/2" free travel). 

All this in BRAKE section (paragraphs P-3, P-4 and P-5) follow it closely.

[SteveKfl]

Interesting.  I was taught that one should start with the MC, and then to the shortest line closest to the MC to bleed it, and then move to the next until the fluid is all the way to the end and air doesn't get trapped in the line or splitters.  Everybody has their own way.  As long as all of the air is out of the line in front of the MC, and air can move in and out "vent" at the reservoir to "not create a vacuum on the back side of the MC" for the line pressure to have to fight.
 
I agree with Rus, it is best to check for wheel cylinder leaks inside the drum... before you potentially soak a shoe or two with fluid.  Good Luck.  Drive SAFE!

[Rus Curtis]

Steve,
For me, Chilton's and our Service Manual, par P-4 (about 4 sentences down).  Plus, asking mechanics back in the 70's-80's when I first got my jeep and started working on it.  I just stuck with it.  Interestingly, the mechanics would bleed a m/c of most autos on the bench (I asked a lot of questions) but ours is rather simple and I've done okay with bleeding after installation.  I will also add that back then, I'd get help pumping.  But a few decades ago, I got a pressure bleeder (similar to what the mechanics I knew used) and have never looked back.

[Shark49]

no cylinder leaks.  Im convinced it's a bubble seeing as it gets stiffer when I pump the pedal.

[Rus Curtis]

no cylinder leaks.  Im convinced it's a bubble seeing as it gets stiffer when I pump the pedal.

To be thorough, again, ensure the shoes are adjusted to minimize travel where pumping is required (para P-6).

[SteveKfl]

RUS, and others.  I learned my ways from a Master Mechanic starting back in mid 60s.  Lots of things have changed, including technology, and replicated thru social media and other ways of the "methodology".  All I know is, he was an accomplished mechanic owning his own garage and was trusted to even do the short blocks by the "truck load" for the Jenkins NHRA drag racer, as well as Bobby Allison NASCAR, a local here back in the day, and even Hendric Motors a while back.  Granted, my guy was "unorthodox" with "his methods", but his results could not be denied. 
 
"His logic" was... push the old fluid and any air "out" from the MC (fluid source) out continuing to fill the MC as needed.... to not allow any "trapped air" or "old contaminated fluid" at distribution splits or in the cylinders.  I've never done it any other way, so I can't compare methods. 
 
Air bubbles, or contaminated fluid, left in the system is not going to allow the "system" to work at maximum capability and dependability.  NOTE: Air actually assists in "contaminating fluid" with condensation build up... as well as creates a "cushion" not allowing full pressure.  I was surprised to read just how fast air contaminates the fluid, and that's why it shouldn't be used after lengthy storage.  The air in the stored container condensates... so I've been told.
 
Starting with the "proper shoe adjustment" is a must as well.  A while back I commented on the "vent hole" on the MC fill-cap getting "blocked" and causing problems.  It seems some didn't know that tiny hole was even there (dirt and/or paint blocking it).  That is why I asked here "how the added reservoir" was connected, and "if" it was properly vented, probably so as a "new kit".  But, was air trapped in the MC when installed and just isn't getting pushed out completely... yet...
 
I love all of the personal experiences shared on this site.  We're never too old to "learn new tricks" without having to experience them all "first hand".  THANKS to all involved!!!

[Shark49]

Brakes are still squishy.  Can't figure it out.  May take it to a local mechanic.

On another note, what tool are guys using to drain the rear differential? It's a 7/8" square recessed plug and I cannot find anything online. 

[Rus Curtis]

I'm going to kick that dead horse one more time;  Did you verify your shoes are adjusted all the way out (turn eccentrics until making contact, spinning the wheel, then back off just a bit, par. P-6)?  I've not seen a confirmation on this yet.  Also, how are you bleeding?  2-person, pressure, vacuum?

7/8" ?!  That's nearly an inch across!  Are you sure it's not maybe 3/4"?

I've always used a 1/2" or 3/8" extension - depending on the plug size.  If it is 3/4" you can get a bargain adaptor at Harbor Freight to step up from 1/2 to 3/4.

[Shark49]

Yes I believe I did that when I installed all new brakes.  It still takes about two to three pumps to be firm.  I have bled them with my daughter assisting as well as using a compressor activated one. no leaks anywhere!

I may have mis-read the tape measure but it's the standard rear differential with the recessed drain at bottom. I need to tighten it. 

[Rus Curtis]

I would try the shoe adjustment again - to be sure.  No different than bleeding multiple times.  I'm really hoping this is your issue (it could be just one or two wheels).  Having said that, going back to your earlier post about a remote reservoir, I'm not familiar with its setup.  Steve posted a point about the m/c cap.  How does that thing get tapped into the m/c?  is there any instructions relating to purging/draining or bleeding?

For the drain plug, crud and goop can build up and make it difficult to get the correct tool up in the slot.  But, give the 1/2 drive ratchet with a short extension a shot and see if it fits.  If too small maybe the 3/4" adapter mentioned.

[Shark49]

I put the original cap back on it and it did not change.  Ill try the shoes again.

Vintage Jeeper sells a cap with a threaded hole in the top in which you put a nipple and hose up to the remote reservoir.

[Rus Curtis]

Vintage Jeeper sells a cap with a threaded hole in the top in which you put a nipple and hose up to the remote reservoir.

This is how I've seen it described.  I just don't have any experience - but if no air gets in, it should work.

[SteveKfl]

Since my reference was brought up, let me try to clarify.  There is supposed to be a "vent hole" (pic 1 attached) in the original MC cap.  Sometimes via dirt or paint it gets covered up.  The remote reservoir should have a vent in it, being the "highest point".  If the original MC cap had a "working vent", the system would be able to suck air in, or release pressure slightly.  Hopefully the KW cap not only is threaded, but seals the MC.  The sequence of pics show the bottom deflector of the original cap, then the components of the cap, and the last the pieces of "my system set up".  I hope that helps.

[Shark49]

I went through each wheel and readjusted the pads and while they were a bit off it wasn't enough to make a major change.  I got tired of crawling under it on hard concrete so I brought it to my local shop who works on classics and did a lot on my 61 Chevy apache.  In the meantime.  Pics of the jeep as it stands!  Getting the fold out windshield hardware powder coated.

[SteveKfl]

Looks purty.  Happy motoring.