Door hinge... broke

[BillT]

Well it didn't actually break but the metal under it did. Jeep is a '52 cj3a, the hinge is on the driver side, welded to the windshield frame. The hinge pulled out leaving two holes where it was welded to the frame. Trying to figure out what happened, the door frame may be bent and when the door is wide open it is pulling on the hinge. The passenger door does not seem to do this pulling.
Obviously the hinge will need to be welded back on. How would you approach this repair? The hinge is nearly touching the rubber gasket. I am not a welder and will have to farm-out the repair. I hope the repair can be done without removing the gasket and glass. What are your thoughts?

[SteveKfl]

I doubt if the passenger side door gets the workout the driver's side does and more frequently too.  Since it is mounted to the "windshield frame", which is meant to be"moved to fold down", if it were me, I would check for a "solid windshield frame mounting" without play, and maybe even add in a bolt or two thru it into the body to "secure it", before having a repair done involving welding.  When "secured", the windshield frame may be in a slightly different position to handle the stress, but won't move.  I would think a good "body shop" should be able to do the metal repair and the windshield re-installation if required.  They have to replace/install windshields frequently.  Good Luck!

[BillT]

Thanks Steve..... My goal with this jeep is not to restore but to get back into original condition. I looked at the door hinge mount on my m38a1 and they are bolted on, I may do this but then it wouldn't be original, but then not many would know that.

I only use the doors during the three cold months. considering having a small plate welded over the torn out area, then spot welding the hinge to that. Does spot welding create enough heat to damage the rubber gasket and/or the glass, or is there a welding method that would work but not create as much heat?

[Rus Curtis]

So Bill,
The hinge didn't just pop loose from the frame at the welds, it actually tore a hole or two in the frame when it came off, right?

...considering having a small plate welded over the torn out area...

That hinge bracket can be pounded back flat again if it was bent.  The tear in your w/s frame is more concerning.

If I'm guessing correctly, that hinge bracket is actually welded to the door channel bracket (like on the 3B) and then the channel bracket is welded to the frame.  Is that right?

I want to say both parts should be fairly stout.  It would be interesting to see how bad the holes are.  Do they go all the way into the space inside the frame?  If so, considering what SteveKfl said about a new frame could be a factor.  I'm not sure but (I'm not a welder) there may be some issues with welding to a rusted out backing.  You may find the need to see how bad it is.  Without knowing, even bolts through the framing might crush the frame if it's weakened.  Crush sleeves may help with that.  If it's only torn from the channel then it maybe could be welded back on.

I would absolutely have a welder look at it.  It wouldn't surprise me to find out they may have a solution to keep your w/s gasket cool enough not to melt.

There was a frame for sale on the 2A forum a month ago:
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/cj3a-windshiield-w-glass_topic48197.html

If it doesn't go well or gets to be heavy on the repair bill, if you post a WTB here, there may be one sitting in someone's pile that needs a home.

[BillT]

Russ... I went down to the Jeep shed to take some pics, which I did, now to find out if I  can figure out how to post them.
Anyway I got some light on the damaged area and discovered that the hinge is attached to a strip that is attached to the windshield frame, it also has the grove that the door edging slides into.The top edge of the strip is secured to the windshield frame with a screw and nut, can’t tell how the bottom is secured. Will look again tomorrow when it’s daylight. If I can get this strip off it will be a simple repair.

[BillT]

Hopefully this is a pic of the strip the hinge tore off of.

[BillT]

Rus... what is a crush sleeve?

[SteveKfl]

Well, that picture answers a lot of questions.  Pics really help for "related suggestions".  I had a completely different picture of the situation in my mind at the time of my suggestion.  Bracket is easily fixable or replaceable separate from the WS frame.  You dodged a bullet there.

[Rus Curtis]

Well, that picture answers a lot of questions.  Pics really help for "related suggestions".  I had a completely different picture of the situation in my mind at the time of my suggestion.  Bracket is easily fixable or replaceable separate from the WS frame.  You dodged a bullet there.

100% AGREE!!

Russ... I went down to the Jeep shed to take some pics, which I did, now to find out if I  can figure out how to post them.
Anyway I got some light on the damaged area and discovered that the hinge is attached to a strip that is attached to the windshield frame, it also has the grove that the door edging slides into.The top edge of the strip is secured to the windshield frame with a screw and nut, can’t tell how the bottom is secured. Will look again tomorrow when it’s daylight. If I can get this strip off it will be a simple repair.

IF it's possible to remove that door channel then an easier job of reattaching the hinge bracket can be done!  If not, that channel could possibly be repaired, ground flat and then the hinge bracket welded directly.  A welder may have some better suggestions.

what is a crush sleeve?

Mostly used in pinion torque for bearing preload.  I was using this term to describe a sleeve insert to protect your w/s frame from squashing - if it were rusted out (maybe there's a better term).  We can see in your image that your frame should be okay. 

[athawk11]

I have a feeling this is a somewhat common repair. The prior owner of my 3A drilled and bolted the bracket back on.  I knew it wasn't original, but after welding the bracket back on, I decided to leave the bolt in place...just so people that are "in the know" would have something else to call me out on.  And yes, they have called me out for it.

Note: I welded it back on while there was no gasket and windshield installed. Also note, welding spittle can damage glass.  If you try to protect the gasket in some way, also cover the glass.

[BillT]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys.

There is a small machine screw securing the top three or four inches of the bracket to the ws frame, the rest of the bracket is spot welded to the frame. I was able to pry the bracket from the ws frame far enough to determine that the ws frame metal is still in good shape. I will find a welder and get his opinion on how to repair. Right now I have no problem with drilling a couple of holes thru the ws frame and hinge to secure.  But I would rather have it welded as original.

Thanks again Steve and Rus. I appreciate your input.

[BillT]

Athawk11 if I do end up having it welded back on that will be a big concern. If I can secure it some way I have a non- asbestos sheet I used when brazing near flammable material. Maybe I will be able to use it to protect the glass, we also used a paste to protect adjacent material, might work on the rubber gasket, I think the name was Heat Trap.
I appreciate the comments. Thanks

[athawk11]

Bill,
If I were to try and weld it while the shield and rubber are in place...

-Protect from welding spittle.

-After cleaning the door channel, drill 2 - 3/16" or 1/4"" holes through both the bracket, the door channel and the windshield.  Clamp the bracket and channel tightly to the windshield frame.

-"Plug" weld the 2 drilled holes.  This happens very quick because the holes are so small.   Plus, only weld for very short bursts. Between these bursts, blow compressed air on your work to quickly cool the weld and surrounding steel.  I've also used cold water in a spray bottle, but the compressed air works fine and doesn't get messy.

Plug welding also has the benefit of looking like the original spot welds from the factory.

[athawk11]

I can use MyWillysPics again!!!  Thanks Pascal.

This is what a plug weld looks like. 





I used the cooling technique while welding thin sheet steel that has a tendency to disintegrate and warp if you get it too hot.

[BillT]

Athawk11.... how close to SC are you??  Lol

Is the plug method a common procedure?