Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!

[1955CJ-5]

When it does run, what color is the exhaust?

If it is black and sooty then it is getting too much fuel.

Your Solex may be dumping fuel into the engine, washing all the soot and crud into the oil pan, blackening the oil and filling the pan.

Do you have a manual choke? is it opening all the way or maybe stuck closed...? I've read that the Solex is sensitive to fuel pressure. Are you using a pressure regulator?

I would not run it again until you find the fuel source, as it will wash the oil off the cylinder walls and cause big problems.

I would for sure change the oil and filter before trying another start.

You can also get fuel in the oil through a faulty fuel pump.

Once you get the oil changed and decide to try another start, I would first remove the large air tube that runs from the air cleaner to the carb, and let the carb draw air unrestricted, just to see if it runs better and if the oil coming from the filler tube still occurs.

[Mytwojeeps2020]

1955cj-5:

Thanks for your response!

My answers are in bold below:



When it does run, what color is the exhaust? BLUE GRAY

If it is black and sooty then it is getting too much fuel.

Your Solex may be dumping fuel into the engine, washing all the soot and crud into the oil pan, blackening the oil and filling the pan. INTERESTING. THE SOLEX ONLY HAS ABOUT 20 HOURS ON IT

Do you have a manual choke? YES is it opening all the way or maybe stuck closed...? I've read that the Solex is sensitive to fuel pressure. Are you using a pressure regulator? NO. I DONT KNOW WHAT THAT IS...

I would not run it again until you find the fuel source, as it will wash the oil off the cylinder walls and cause big problems.

I would for sure change the oil and filter before trying another start.

You can also get fuel in the oil through a faulty fuel pump. PUMP IS BRAND NEW, NOT THAT THST NECESSARILY MATTERS

Once you get the oil changed and decide to try another start, I would first remove the large air tube that runs from the air cleaner to the carb, and let the carb draw air unrestricted, just to see if it runs better and if the oil coming from the filler tube still occurs. ALREADY DID THAT. THE OIL WAS PUMPING OUT THE OIL FILL TUBE LIKE A CUT ARTERY

[Rus Curtis]

Ok, I’m finally back with more info.

I replaced the PCV valve and the PCV line that goes to the intake manifold.

Same thing occurs: after starting it it runs very rough and oil is still being ejected from the oil filler tube back to the air bath filter. The PCV must not have been the issue.

I sampled some oil from my oil pan. It’s black as coal (the oil and filter were changed about 20 minutes running time ago), and the oil has gas in it. I put a few drops on the floor and lit a match - it instantly ignighted).

Radiator fluid is a bit low, but doesn’t appear to be much.

I’m at a complete loss. Not being mechanically inclined, I’m thinking a rebuild might be in order.

Your thoughts, kind friends?

M2J,
I also suspect the fuel pump.  Smell the oil that is in the oil pan.  Does it smell like oil or gas?  Is it thin and runny (like water) or thick like oil?

I've never seen nor heard of an engine pumping oil out the filler neck as you describe, "Like a cut artery."  It would take a lot to pump that far up the tube.  Before changing, what was the oil level on the dipstick?  Higher?

Blue/gray exhaust usually suggests oil burning.  There could be an issue with the head gasket.  Oil droplets in the antifreeze (or water droplets in the oil) can also be a sign Or white smoke billowing out the tail pipe).

I'm wondering if you might be able to post a video of the issue you're describing.

[SteveKfl]

I agree, the oil out the filler tube is strange.  That would seem to imply the crankcase/oil pan is pressurized.  Combining that symptom with the gas in the oil would lead me to think the fuel pump is the culprit, pumping gas into the oil, and over filling the oil pan.  Very dangerous as the fumes are compacted.  Any backfire and ...bang.  I would look at the fuel pump and cleaning the oil pan from all gas in it first, just for safety reasons, and as Rus said, the gas in the oil wipes out the lubrication film in the engine, so it shouldn't be run like that.  Safety first!

[1955CJ-5]

The oil would have to be pretty high in the pan for it to even reach the base of the oil fill tube....how much oil are you putting in?

do you have the correct length dip stick? The one I have is 25 3/8 from the inside base of the cap to the tip.....23" to the full line.....

If I look down the fill tube with a flashlight, I can see the small hole at the bottom that the dipstick fits through, then i see the surface of the oil a short distance below that.

Can you see the hole down there or just oil?

The fill tube on my f-134 is 14 3/8 from where it enters the block to the lip, without the cap in place.

At about 9" from the block there is a clip that holds it in place, fastened to the bottom oil filter mounting bolt.

This picture is the bottom of the fill tube....

My thought is the tube may have been pushed down into the oil, but I'm not even sure if that is possible.

[SteveKfl]

See if the following helps you see the ventilation system...  https://cj3b.info/Tech/PCV.html  Or this...   https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/oil-pressure.12689/

[SteveKfl]

In general when I searched for oil blowing out the oil fill tube, the same 3 options seem to come up as suggested in this non-Willys forum answer.  Info should help.  You may have clogged ventilation as well as the rings are not "seated" on your rebuild compounding the prolem.  Start with easiets as suggested here...  willie's avatar
willie
asked in Cars & TransportationMaintenance & Repairs · 1 decade ago
I have oil blowing out of dipstick tube?
what are possible causes for oil to be discharge out of dipstick tube?  a little to none at idle.  much more when driving.  engine is a 5.0 (305) chevy in a 1988 1500 scottsdale.. vehicle sat for approximately one year before I bought it.

AnswerSave
17 Answers
Kenneth S's avatar
Kenneth S
Lv 5
1 decade ago
Favorite Answer
3 things come to mind...I'll go with the simplest first...you are over full on oil.  The second is the PCV Valve is clogged...PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation...this allows the crankcase to vent..(this is where your oil is in the oil pan)...and the last...not a good thing but probably worth fixing...your piston rings are bad allowing blowby...(this is oil escaping past the piston rings and compression passing back past the combustion chamber into the crankcase).  This causes pressure to build up in the crankcase and the easiest escape route is through the dip stick tube.

To check your PCV valve...this is the little item which is located on your valve cover...normally on the drivers side..simply remove it and shake it...if it rattles inside than odds are it's good.  once you have done this place your finger over the end of it with the engine running and see if it has suction....if it does then this eliminates this.

If the engine oil level is ok...then sorry it's the rings in the engine and requires a rebuild or a replacement engine.

[Rus Curtis]

In general when I searched for oil blowing out the oil fill tube, the same 3 options seem to come up as suggested in this non-Willys forum answer.  Info should help.  You may have clogged ventilation as well as the rings are not "seated" on your rebuild compounding the prolem.  Start with easiets as suggested here...  willie's avatar
willie
asked in Cars & TransportationMaintenance & Repairs · 1 decade ago
I have oil blowing out of dipstick tube?
what are possible causes for oil to be discharge out of dipstick tube?  a little to none at idle.  much more when driving.  engine is a 5.0 (305) chevy in a 1988 1500 scottsdale.. vehicle sat for approximately one year before I bought it.

AnswerSave
17 Answers
Kenneth S's avatar
Kenneth S
Lv 5
1 decade ago
Favorite Answer
3 things come to mind...I'll go with the simplest first...you are over full on oil.  The second is the PCV Valve is clogged...PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation...this allows the crankcase to vent..(this is where your oil is in the oil pan)...and the last...not a good thing but probably worth fixing...your piston rings are bad allowing blowby...(this is oil escaping past the piston rings and compression passing back past the combustion chamber into the crankcase).  This causes pressure to build up in the crankcase and the easiest escape route is through the dip stick tube.

To check your PCV valve...this is the little item which is located on your valve cover...normally on the drivers side..simply remove it and shake it...if it rattles inside than odds are it's good.  once you have done this place your finger over the end of it with the engine running and see if it has suction....if it does then this eliminates this.

If the engine oil level is ok...then sorry it's the rings in the engine and requires a rebuild or a replacement engine.

Steve,
Interesting stuff.  I would presume a compression check would be low on bad rings.

[1955CJ-5]

This is an interesting problem.

I agree that there must be some blow-by through the rings, pressurizing the crankcase to some extent. I think all older design engines will have some blow-by, worn engines more than rebuilt.

But then the pan oil has to reach the base of the fill tube or maybe even be above it. As I look through my fill tube there is an obvious(though I can't tell how large) air space between the bottom of the tube and the oil surface.

And if the oil is reaching the bottom of the fill tube, you then have the suction of the crankcase vent tube, through the air cleaner and carb.

So you essentially have a pump, pumping oil from the pan, up the tube and through the intake.

The Model A Ford has no crankcase ventilation other than back through the fill tube. They are well known for misting the interior of the engine compartment with oil, blown from the fill tube. There are even baffles inserted into the tube to help reduce the misting.

I'm looking forward to having this mystery solved!

[Mytwojeeps2020]

I could not get a movie to upload, just may be too large. It’s about 70 seconds long.

Anyway, here is a screenshot. Lots of vibration because my phone was sitting on my fender while the engine was running.

The yellow plug in the foreground is a battery wire. Directly behind that, you can see the oil gushing out the oil filler tube that runs between it and the oil bath (I had taken the hose off so I could get a picture of the oil gushing out)

BTW, before this happened, the oil was at the correct level.

[Mytwojeeps2020]

M2J,
I also suspect the fuel pump.  Smell the oil that is in the oil pan.  Does it smell like oil or gas?  Is it thin and runny (like water) or thick like oil?

I've never seen nor heard of an engine pumping oil out the filler neck as you describe, "Like a cut artery."  It would take a lot to pump that far up the tube.  Before changing, what was the oil level on the dipstick?  Higher?

Blue/gray exhaust usually suggests oil burning.  There could be an issue with the head gasket.  Oil droplets in the antifreeze (or water droplets in the oil) can also be a sign Or white smoke billowing out the tail pipe).

I'm wondering if you might be able to post a video of the issue you're describing.
[/quote]

Hi, Rus!

The fuel pump was replaced about 100 miles ago. Now, I’m beginning to question if the garage put it in right. Nice guys, but we are dealing with a nearly 60 year old engine that is very analog compared to modern cars. I would hope they installed it with a gasket, but who knows? Or, the part itself may be bad. All this new trouble started after the fuel pump was installed.

The oil I sampled from the oil pan is pitch black, and filled with gas-looks and smells to be more gas than oil. Brand new filter and new oil, and it turned into this after 20 minutes of run time. The crankcase had been filled with fresh oil to the proper level.

The video is 70 seconds long. I can’t upload it to this site, unless I’m missing a procedure somewhere. If anyone would like to PM me with their email, I can try and send it by that method.

Here is a pic of my oil sample.

Thanks, folks!

[Rus Curtis]

Hi, Rus!

The fuel pump was replaced about 100 miles ago. Now, I’m beginning to question if the garage put it in right. Nice guys, but we are dealing with a nearly 60 year old engine that is very analog compared to modern cars. I would hope they installed it with a gasket, but who knows? Or, the part itself may be bad. All this new trouble started after the fuel pump was installed.

The oil I sampled from the oil pan is pitch black, and filled with gas-looks and smells to be more gas than oil. Brand new filter and new oil, and it turned into this after 20 minutes of run time. The crankcase had been filled with fresh oil to the proper level.

The video is 70 seconds long. I can’t upload it to this site, unless I’m missing a procedure somewhere. If anyone would like to PM me with their email, I can try and send it by that method.

Thanks, folks!

OKAY!

I think we may be zeroing in on this!  I saw the "spew" in your posted pic.  Never saw that before.....

That jar looks like gas/oil contamination.

To post a video, I believe you'd have to host on something like YouTube and post a link.

The fact that your oil gets contaminated immediately (smell, consistency, etc) really sounds like the fuel pump.  The pump gasket only helps seal up against the engine block (avoiding oil leaks around it) but inside there is a diaphragm that is driven by the arm sticking into the block and making contact with the cam.  That rocking arm against the diaphragm creates the pumping action that pulls gas from the tank and pushes it up to the carb.  When there is a hole/tear, fuel has a direct path into the oil pan.  This type failure was common back when we all had mechanical pumps.

Now that your symptoms seem to point towards a bad pump, it is very plausible that gas is filling up the oil pan and causing the level to rise up to the filler tube hole.   You should also notice more fluid coming out of the oil pan dran when you drain it.  Treat it like it is gas.

[Bruce_W]

  More blowby than the PCV system can handle. If the rings and cylinder walls are washed down by gas, this can happen. Has anyone suggested a compression or leak-down test?
BW

[Rus Curtis]

Yes,  my post yesterday @9:57

[Mytwojeeps2020]

Uh, oh..

I forgot to mention this. Yet another clue:

In re-reviewing the video today, I forgot to mention earlier that before the fluid starts hemorrhaging from the oil filler tube, I could see fluid spurting from beneath the oil canister. After I saw this, I put my hand on the hose beneath the oil canister, and it broke off very easily - the "oil" smelled like gas.

Thus, air may be leaking into the oil line from that location. I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my recent post, but re-reviewing the video reminded me of it.

I don't know if this is connected to my main problem. It may just be a coincidence it has broken from old age and may not have anything to do with my main issue.