The preservation of "Hoover" - my '51 CJ3A

[athawk11]

Okay, here is what I came up with.� Keep in mind...65 year old vehicles and neither were treated very nice.

White Willys,

Wheel well pockets
1.0665" front to rear.� .09855" passenger to driver.
1.0425" front to rear.� �.09655" driver to passenger.

Rear pockets. These aren't perfectly round anymore.
1.049" driver side.
1.0325" passenger side.


Green Willys. Note: No rear pockets.� These are heavily painted.� These were never repaired or removed from the tub.

Wheel well pockets
1.0820" front to rear.� 1.0265" driver to passenger.
1.0115" front to rear.� .9885" Passenger to driver.

Tim

[JeepFever]

Thanks Tim for the measurements.� �. .� �On yours it looks like the pockets would have a little clearance front-to-back,� �but tight -> driver-to-passenger.� � (assuming white one is .98 not 1.098 ?)� � This has me curious if the bow tubing is forced oval where it inserts into bracket?� -or- if the tubing does not deform -> could create the indent like on top rail of mine.

edit:  I took a quick look at Jpet's thread on making bows.  The drawing shows the tubing to be 1.00"  . . not sure what the tolerance is on that,   or why mine measures 1.010.   Maybe that is not normal.

[Bob W]

I can't measure my bow sockets without removing the enclosures but I do have some observations. Original bows in original sockets are very tight in the rear sockets and a bit loose in the front sockets. Just my experience on these old Jeeps.

[athawk11]

Fever,
I want to thank you for bringing this up.� Knowing that the bows are 1" OD, I was surprised to find the wheel well pockets to be so tight.� �The green Willys has M38 bows, so I'm not concerned about the size.�

I will want the white Willys pockets to be usable, so before paint, I'll be "adjusting" them for proper fit.

Thanks again.

Tim

[JeepFever]

BobW - thanks for the observations.� �My current thoughts -> adjust the existing (flared out) front passenger side (at the top),� and make the homemade front driver-side to be a little loose, maybe .020 over the bow dia.� . . all 4 corners of my bows need replaced so it might be a good idea for me to source the repair tubing first. (to know what size will be inserted into the brackets)� . . .My bows are 1.010",� but the repairs may be closer to 1.000 with new tubing?

Hawk - sounds like we both may have benefitted from this exchange.� The pockets on my new driver-side would have been way to large, if I had not heard from you.� Thank you for taking time to post the photos and dimensions of yours.

My "M" piece is too wide,� because I built it based on measurements at the top of existing flared-out passenger-side.� �I will most likely toss it, and start over.� Based on Tim's photos,� I think I will make a simple "U" shaped spacer to proper clearance.� (full length, top to bottom)� . .� I doubt anyone will notice it does not match the passenger side.� �;D

[JeepFever]

Not much time for Jeep tinkering,  but I did a little yesterday.    I got a thought while traveling over weekend ->  Maybe I could use a piece of 1" square tubing to make the replacement for "M" piece.  (It will now be a "U" like atHawk's)   It will also extend all the way to the bottom of hole,  (because the more I look at passenger side,  I am convinced my original did extend down,  but has rusted away.

Maybe finally making some progress.   The bracket is going to be 3X stronger than the other side (thicker steel, and much less rust).   I am debating removing the other,  putting in a replacement "U", and patching the bottom of hole (the wheel housing is rusted thru,  the bottom of hole is actually that reinforcing plate.)  I did not notice that from the outside,  but can see if looking closely from the top.  . . .   Oh wait,  I was thinking I was making progress,   that would be going backwards. . .  Oh well, the life of fixing a rust bucket.

I also narrowed the front piece of bracket.  I had to grind the radius thin,  hammer it narrower, then weld the inside of corner back to original thickness.  (red arrow in photo below)

The pieces mocked up for photo,   I hope to get some time tonite to weld it up!

[athawk11]

Looks great.  But...aren't you a little concerned that the heavier bracket might cause a little 'Willys Lean?'   

Tim

[JeepFever]

Oh no,  you are right!!

Now I am going to HAVE to do the passenger side also! 

[JeepFever]

As this project goes sometimes,  a few steps forward, take some back.

I decided to beef up the passenger side bow bracket.  The stock rusty one,  was SO much weaker than the new bomb-proof one.  . .  also cut out the metal it mounts to, because it was rusted fairly thin.   Replaced that with .075 thick sheet metal.

Still not near finished, but here is photo of progress so far.

[JeepFever]

The other step backwards . . I finally got tired of looking at the really banged up driver front fender,� and my attempt at patching and dolly/shrinking the top of fender.� �It was no where near flat.� The reinforcing bracket was in the way,� and I had no idea how to get it any better.

I almost decided to cover it all with bondo,� but could not live with that,� since it probably would have been .190 or worse thick.

Today, I cut out the mess,� and started a new patch.

You can see how dented and creased the fender is,  forward of the patch,  believe it or not,  that looks great compared with what I cut out. 

[athawk11]

Well, we can�t call it a Flat Fender Willys if the fender isn�t �Flat�. 
 On this particular surface, I even freak out when I see the spot weld divots used to join the fender to the brace.

Hawk 

[JeepFever]

A rainy weekend, and I thought I would get a full two days of work on Hoover,  but we all know how that goes.   

Not as much as I hoped,  but did get the driver fender patch welded in.   Then finished both fenders,  all welding,  bondo, and primer.   Not "flat" to Hawk's standards, I am sure,  but only used approx the volume of 2 golfballs of bondo on both fenders, (just to hide the welds) so I am happy with that.   It will have dents and waves,  but that only adds "character",  (somewhat hidden by the "flat" paint I plan to apply one day).

I also got the top-bow brackets welded in,  (no photos)

[JeepFever]

Poor Hoover has been neglected.   

I was cleaning out a shed over the weekend,  and came across these seats.   I can't remember where I got them 20 years ago,  but original thought was to put in my '2A one day. 

Looks like they fit the '3A better.    . .  They appear to be originally green . .  from a M-38 maybe?

I need to get back to work on the tub,  it is getting rusty under a leaky tarp. 

[athawk11]

I can't tell if there is any difference when comparing an M38 and CJ3A passenger seat.   

The driver seats are different.  The inside leg on the M38 doesn't arch forward like the seat in your photo.  The side bar just stops...and there is a perpendicular bar that attaches to the tranny hump...but further back.

Glad to see you're still nibbling away at it!

Hawk
 

[JeepFever]

Nibbling is right!�

The weather has cooled down a couple days,� and I am getting the fever again ->� reading some of the other builds that are actually making some progress.� �

I pulled the tarp off, and did some sandblasting of the welds, the fuel pocket,  and some areas that got rusty.  � I am hoping to get some filler and primer where I can,� to keep the bare metal from rusting while Hoover is outside.� . .� �hopefully I can get it in the garage in upcoming month and make some real progress.