Author Topic: Too rusty to save? (Read 198451 times)

1955CJ-5 · « **on:** February 04, 2013, 11:14:59 PM »

It was suggested that I start a thread to get some opinions on whether I should buy a truckload of repair panels or a replacement tub....Now I've read several threads on the tubs and realize they too require lots of work. The trouble with the repair panels is that I have little welding experience, and no welder...I'm willing to learn..but first some pictures..

Realize that what you are looking at on the floors is the first replacement panel that has rusted through. In the case of the drivers side there are three layers of floor...The tool box is welded over as is the riser and the area behind the seats....Frame has no rust through and appears solid.

I've been told that photobucket will noï¿½ longer host third party pictures...and that may mean those posted in this thread..so if you see no pictures that is why....updated 7/3/2017

[reason]SLOWLY REPLACING PHOTOBUCKET LINKS

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1955CJ-5 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2013, 11:16:29 PM »

A couple more....

athawk11 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:09:53 AM »

Randy,
You and I find ourselves in a similar position. ï¿½We both have tubs that are very rough. ï¿½I am normally the type that would encourage you to work on your welding skills. ï¿½A nice little wire feed is easy to use and quite handy beyond a Willys. ï¿½I did this level of work on my first 3A. ï¿½Tub repair added a full year to my 2 year build. ï¿½If you are in no hurry, improve your welding skills and repair your tub. ï¿½There is a huge batch of self satisfaction waiting for you. ï¿½

On the other hand, if patience is not in your cards and you have fairly deep pockets, a replacement tub may be a better choice. ï¿½As you have read, there will be work to do, but no where near as much.

Perhaps you can find an original doner tub that is in better condition than yours. ï¿½The draw back here is you will still, most likely, have work to do. ï¿½And it make take some time to find one. ï¿½

I have a Willys to drive now, so the decision is easy. ï¿½I have decided to look for a doner tub. ï¿½

You've got a nice CJ5 to drive, and many other 3A micro projects to tackle. ï¿½You could look for a tub while you fix other sub-groups. ï¿½

I know...I didn't help at all.

ï¿½

Tim ï¿½

bretto · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2013, 06:52:09 AM »

The best thing to do is not ponder on the whole thing and take it one piece at a time. If you look at all the rust and holes as a whole package, it can be overwhelming. I found that once a section was trimmed of the bad metal and you have a nice edge to work with, fabbing in a new piece was relatively easy.

It sounds like you have read up on the nightmares of what a new tub entails. With the price of a new tub and all the time it takes to work it, I feel you would be better off diverting that money to tools to fix your current tub or a donor tub.

Either road you take, you will still have to do some fab work. Welding equipment is an investment but once you have it figured out and have the equipment, you will never understand how you went without. I had never done any body work myself before the M38 came along and I think I have done ok. Being relatively all flat panels, I am certain it's a good learning platform.

1955CJ-5 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2013, 09:26:04 AM »

I think deep down I agree with you guys. Going after it step by step and getting a few solid parts in there to build on might be the way to go. I'll need a welder either way, so I should get that first. Then maybe a nibbler or a 4 1/2" grinder or probably both. Worst case is I'll cut away the rust and not find enough steel to work with.

I think floor boards should be first and then work back from there. I can't separate the body from the frame as I think I'll end up with two or more sections.. right now I have sort of a fixture to hold things in place while adding new parts...

I know there have been worse jeeps that have been brought back...

johnrb3b · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2013, 11:21:55 AM »

Quote

Worst case is I'll cut away the rust and not find enough steel to work with.

That's what we ran into trying to salvage a 1957 3B tub. Kept cutting farther and farther up the side of the tub and never could find any shiny metal. The steel was rusted to the core even under the paint.

We broke down and bought an MD Juan tub through Walck's. Actually, it fit pretty well, just a little tweaking here and there.
Of course you have a flat dash to work with - no dent for the hand brake, no angle for the steering tube bracket, no hole for gauges, no floorboard holes for the pedals, etc. etc. For the price ($2,200 and free shipping to our door) we felt it was a fair deal.

That all worked out fine for us as this is not a period-authentic rebuild. We added a stereo to the dash along with cool switches for all the electrical functions, a YJ back seat, aftermarket roll bar, Amazon seat belts. You get the idea.

F Bill · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:42:24 PM »

One thing you might consider is using the general shape of the old parts to make simpler versions of the new parts out of slightly heavier steel.. Leaving out the stiffening ribs, substituting more bracing under the bed floor, etc, can get you a good useable tub that is no longer stock but functions well, for a lot less than a new tub.

I wouldn't get too worried about cutting your tub apart to rebuild it. If your dash, cowl top, and firewall are good, you can build the rest. It is in teh making thaings exactly like original that the expense comes. If you aren't fussy you can still have a good looking jeep for a lot less. (Leaving the tailgate out ala the WWII and DJ tubs will save a bunch of time too.)

1955CJ-5 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:01:26 PM »

Not finding enough metal is definitely possible...as I look at the drivers side around the fuel filler indentation I see that it is reasonably smooth...it does not have the visible overlap that it should have where the fuel filler indent was welded in....so there is putty there... probably the whole side will have a skim coat of putty....and what is under that bondo is anybody's guess..

I think I'll start by drilling out the rivets that hold the overlapping floor boards in place and see what is there...my decision my be an easy one after I see what is left....

1955CJ-5 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:33:19 PM »

So, ten minutes with a drill and the first layer is out. The second layer is held in with bucked rivets so it may not come out so easily....the heavier panel is held in with a bolt..I'm nearing the point-of-no-return..

And the spiral deep space willys nebula...

1955CJ-5 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:51:39 PM »

More......and now I see that the body side panel on the drivers side has at least two layers, so there is (was) steel layered over steel there too....

Carls_jeep · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2013, 02:25:31 PM »

I think at this point you should start looking at what body panels you can get and the total price of the panels you will need. Then look at the prices of a repo tub and compare the prices. Then remember that you will have to put all those panels in your current tub. Now you have to decide is it worth rebuilding your tub compared to buying a tub and modifying it to work for you.

1955CJ-5 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2013, 02:47:54 PM »

Quote

I think at this point you should start looking at what body panels you can get and the total price of the panels you will need. Then look at the prices of a repo tub and compare the prices. Then remember that you will have to put all those panels in your current tub. Now you have to decide is it worth rebuilding your tub compared to buying a tub and modifying it to work for you.

Thanks Carl,

I sorta did that. Hoping to retain everything from the grill back to the dash/toe boards, I came up with about $1800 for parts from Classic Ent, before shipping. I guess you could sort of consider a tub to be the same collection of parts, it just happens to be assembled, and probably some quality differences. Most offer free shipping.....so that is nearly a push..

There is a complete running driving 3a near here that is nearly rust free, has a few extra holes in the body, including an f-head with the hole in the hood and wide chrome rims.....asking price is about the same as a repli-tub less shipping...but it is a complete jeep, with the wrong engine.

I was hoping to "save" this one.. I hate to strip it to save another, but that may be the only option......and really, that was the original intent, buy this one or one like it and use it's parts to return the other to stock, the $$$$ just got out of hand. ï¿½

F Bill · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2013, 06:25:55 PM »

Consider buying the cowl sides with steps, the quarter panels, and a solid rear panel from classic, and making all the wheelhouse and floor pieces yourself. You will have the option to make your own length wheelhouses to allow whatever size seat you want that way. THe floor can be all built with 16 gage or even thin diamond plate, and hat channels can be made with tubing.

For a similar made from nothing jeep see Mike Gardner's build thread over on the 2A page. He built a 45 from a badly rotted tub, and it came out great!

EDIT... four side panels from Classic are $720. ï¿½The rear panel is $4xx or so. You can make your own rear panel for that. ï¿½Their rear floor is $270, Omix gets $350 but theirs includes the riser. THe rear floor is a simple box, with ribs, If you don't need the ribs you can use 16 gage to build it and spend a lot less. You could buy a bead roller and dies to make your own but it isn't quite that simple as rolling 8 ribs in, as it will get all warped if you don't prestretch where the ribs go.
SECOND EDIT:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/my-winter-project-built-my-own-tub_topic21822.html

Check out Phil's tub building adventure....No Classic parts involved!

1955CJ-5 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2013, 07:35:41 PM »

Oh boy....you haven't seen my garage...I'd love to have all those tools and a place to put them...Looked at a welder (Miller 211) today, and drooled over the plasma cutter..I did buy a 4 1/2" side grinder and a couple of discs..

I have most of the old replacement floor up on the drivers side...The only real positive part is that in comparing the pax side to the drivers side the pax side now looks really good!!

That riser is gone..I was hoping there would be something left to weld to.....but I have not written off the tub yet..

Here is the original floor...

F Bill · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2013, 08:00:29 PM »

Here is Mike Gardners tub rebuild , scattered over the first ten pages or so..

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/7-years-of-work-a-lifetime-of-fun_topic6702_page1.html?KW=45

Ihope you have seen the tub rebuilding FAQ.... http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tub-rebuilding-information-thread_topic21836.html That reminds me I need to cut and paste that one over here..

My Willys 3A and 3B Community

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Author Topic: Too rusty to save? (Read 198451 times)

1955CJ-5

Too rusty to save?

1955CJ-5

Re: Too rusty to save?

athawk11

Re: Too rusty to save?

bretto

Re: Too rusty to save?

1955CJ-5

Re: Too rusty to save?

johnrb3b

Re: Too rusty to save?

F Bill

Re: Too rusty to save?

1955CJ-5

Re: Too rusty to save?

1955CJ-5

Re: Too rusty to save?

1955CJ-5

Re: Too rusty to save?

Carls_jeep

Re: Too rusty to save?

1955CJ-5

Re: Too rusty to save?

F Bill

Re: Too rusty to save?

1955CJ-5

Re: Too rusty to save?

F Bill

Re: Too rusty to save?