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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Too rusty to save? (Read 177026 times)
 
1955CJ-5
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Too rusty to save?
02/05/13 at 04:14:59
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It was suggested that I start a thread to get some opinions on whether I should buy a truckload of repair panels or a replacement tub....Now I've read several threads on the tubs and realize they too require lots of work. The trouble with the repair panels is that I have little welding experience, and no welder...I'm willing to learn..but first some pictures..

Realize that what you are looking at on the floors is the first replacement panel that has rusted through. In the case of the drivers side there are three layers of floor...The tool box is welded over as is the riser and the area behind the seats....Frame has no rust through and appears solid.

I've been told that photobucket will no  longer host third party pictures...and that may mean those posted in this thread..so if you see no pictures that is why....updated 7/3/2017




« Last Edit: 07/07/17 at 03:12:17 by 1955CJ-5 » 
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1955CJ-5
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #1 - 02/05/13 at 04:16:29
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A couple more....
« Last Edit: 07/07/17 at 02:50:00 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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athawk11
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #2 - 02/05/13 at 05:09:53
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Randy,
You and I find ourselves in a similar position.  We both have tubs that are very rough.  I am normally the type that would encourage you to work on your welding skills.  A nice little wire feed is easy to use and quite handy beyond a Willys.  I did this level of work on my first 3A.  Tub repair added a full year to my 2 year build.  If you are in no hurry, improve your welding skills and repair your tub.  There is a huge batch of self satisfaction waiting for you.  

On the other hand, if patience is not in your cards and you have fairly deep pockets, a replacement tub may be a better choice.  As you have read, there will be work to do, but no where near as much.

Perhaps you can find an original doner tub that is in better condition than yours.  The draw back here is you will still, most likely, have work to do.  And it make take some time to find one.  

I have a Willys to drive now, so the decision is easy.  I have decided to look for a doner tub.  

You've got a nice CJ5 to drive, and many other 3A micro projects to tackle.  You could look for a tub while you fix other sub-groups.  

I know...I didn't help at all. Wink  

Tim  
  

2-1949 CJ3A 
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bretto
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #3 - 02/05/13 at 11:52:09
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The best thing to do is not ponder on the whole thing and take it one piece at a time.  If you look at all the rust and holes as a whole package, it can be overwhelming.  I found that once a section was trimmed of the bad metal and you have a nice edge to work with, fabbing in a new piece was relatively easy.

It sounds like you have read up on the nightmares of what a new tub entails.  With the price of a new tub and all the time it takes to work it, I feel you would be better off diverting that money to tools to fix your current tub or a donor tub.

Either road you take, you will still have to do some fab work.  Welding equipment is an investment but once you have it figured out and have the equipment, you will never understand how you went without.  I had never done any body work myself before the M38 came along and I think I have done ok.  Being relatively all flat panels, I am certain it's a good learning platform.
  

Brett Orem, UT  PHOTO DIARY OF MY BUILD
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1955CJ-5
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #4 - 02/05/13 at 14:26:04
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I think deep down I agree with you guys.  Going after it step by step and getting a few solid parts in there to build on might be the way to go. I'll need a welder either way, so I should get that first. Then maybe a nibbler or a 4 1/2" grinder or probably both. Worst case is I'll cut away the rust and not find enough steel to work with.

I think floor boards should be first and then work back from there. I can't  separate the body from the frame as I think I'll end up with two or more sections.. right now I have sort of a fixture to hold things in place while adding new parts...

I know there have been worse jeeps that have been brought back...
  

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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #5 - 02/05/13 at 16:21:55
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1955CJ-5 wrote on 02/05/13 at 14:26:04:
Worst case is I'll cut away the rust and not find enough steel to work with.

That's what we ran into trying to salvage a 1957 3B tub. Kept cutting farther and farther up the side of the tub and never could find any shiny metal. The steel was rusted to the core even under the paint.

We broke down and bought an MD Juan tub through Walck's. Actually, it fit pretty well, just a little tweaking here and there.
Of course you have a flat dash to work with - no dent for the hand brake, no angle for the steering tube bracket, no hole for gauges, no floorboard holes for the pedals, etc. etc. For the price ($2,200 and free shipping to our door) we felt it was a fair deal.

That all worked out fine for us as this is not a period-authentic rebuild. We added a stereo to the dash along with cool switches for all the electrical functions, a YJ back seat, aftermarket roll bar, Amazon seat belts. You get the idea.
  

1946 2A - - - 1949 me - older than most of my Jeeps
1954 3B - - - 1957 Wagon - - - 2010 4-door JK
past Jeeps ---> '54 3B - no tub --- '59 3B - no engine
past addiction - VW ---> '69 bus --- '70 camper --- '84 camper
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #6 - 02/05/13 at 17:42:24
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One thing you might consider is using the general shape of the old parts to make simpler versions of the new parts out of slightly heavier steel.. Leaving out the stiffening ribs, substituting more bracing under the bed floor, etc, can get you a good useable tub that is no longer stock but functions well, for a lot less than a new tub.

I wouldn't get too worried about cutting your tub apart to rebuild it. If your dash, cowl top, and firewall are good, you can build the rest.  It is in teh making thaings exactly like original that the expense comes. If you aren't fussy you can still have a good looking jeep for a lot less. (Leaving the tailgate out ala the WWII and DJ tubs will save a bunch of time too.)
  

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Based in central TX and upstate NY.
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1955CJ-5
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #7 - 02/05/13 at 18:01:26
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Not finding enough metal is definitely possible...as I look at the drivers side around the fuel filler indentation I see that it is reasonably smooth...it does not have the visible overlap that it should have where the fuel filler indent was welded in....so there is putty there... probably the whole side will have a skim coat of putty....and what is under that bondo is anybody's guess..

I think I'll start by drilling out the rivets that hold the overlapping floor boards in place and see what is there...my decision my be an easy one after I see what is left....

  

1955 CJ-5, A friend for 55 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #8 - 02/05/13 at 18:33:19
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So, ten minutes with a drill and the first layer is out. The second layer is held in with bucked rivets so it may not come out so easily....the heavier panel is held in with a bolt..I'm nearing the point-of-no-return..

And the spiral deep space willys nebula...





« Last Edit: 07/07/17 at 03:36:02 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #9 - 02/05/13 at 18:51:39
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More......and now I see that the body side panel on the drivers side has at least two layers, so there is (was) steel layered over steel there too....



« Last Edit: 07/23/17 at 22:39:33 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #10 - 02/05/13 at 19:25:31
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I think at this point you should start looking at what body panels you can get and the total price of the panels you will need. Then look at the prices of a repo tub and compare the prices. Then remember that you will have to put all those panels in your current tub. Now you have to decide is it worth rebuilding your tub compared to buying a tub and modifying it to work for you.

  
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #11 - 02/05/13 at 19:47:54
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Carls_jeep wrote on 02/05/13 at 19:25:31:
I think at this point you should start looking at what body panels you can get and the total price of the panels you will need. Then look at the prices of a repo tub and compare the prices. Then remember that you will have to put all those panels in your current tub. Now you have to decide is it worth rebuilding your tub compared to buying a tub and modifying it to work for you.



Thanks Carl,

I sorta did that. Hoping to retain everything from the grill back to the dash/toe boards, I came up with about $1800 for parts from Classic Ent, before shipping. I guess you could sort of consider a tub to be the same collection of parts, it just happens to be assembled, and probably some quality differences. Most offer free shipping.....so that is nearly a push..

There is a complete running driving 3a near here that is nearly rust free, has a few extra holes in the body, including an f-head with the hole in the hood and wide chrome rims.....asking price is about the same as a repli-tub less shipping...but it is a complete jeep, with the wrong engine.

I was hoping to "save" this one.. I hate to strip it to save another, but that may be the only option......and really, that was the original intent, buy this one or one like it and use it's parts to return the other to stock, the $$$$ just got out of hand.  

« Last Edit: 02/05/13 at 19:48:59 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #12 - 02/05/13 at 23:25:55
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Consider buying the cowl sides with steps, the quarter panels, and a solid rear panel from classic, and making all the wheelhouse and floor pieces yourself. You will have the option to make your own length wheelhouses to allow whatever size seat you want that way. THe floor can be all built with 16 gage or even thin diamond plate, and hat channels can be made with tubing.

For a similar made from nothing jeep see Mike Gardner's build thread over on the 2A page. He built a 45 from a badly rotted tub, and it came out great!

EDIT... four side panels from Classic are $720.  The rear panel is $4xx or so. You can make your own rear panel for that.  Their rear floor is $270, Omix gets $350 but theirs includes the riser. THe rear floor is a simple box, with ribs, If you don't need the ribs you can use 16 gage to build it and spend a lot less. You could buy a bead roller and dies to make your own but it isn't quite that simple as rolling 8 ribs in, as it will get all warped if you don't prestretch where the ribs go.
SECOND EDIT:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/my-winter-project-built-my-own-tub_topic21822....

Check out Phil's tub building adventure....No Classic parts involved!
« Last Edit: 02/06/13 at 00:26:29 by F Bill »  

Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.
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1955CJ-5
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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #13 - 02/06/13 at 00:35:41
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Oh boy....you haven't seen my garage...I'd love to have all those tools and a place to put them...Looked at a welder (Miller 211) today, and drooled over the plasma cutter..I did buy a 4 1/2" side grinder and a couple of discs..

I have most of the old replacement floor up on the drivers side...The only real positive part is that in comparing the pax side to the drivers side the pax side now looks really good!!

That riser is gone..I was hoping there would be something left to weld to.....but I have not written off the tub yet..

Here is the original floor...

« Last Edit: 07/23/17 at 22:40:31 by 1955CJ-5 »  

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Re: Too rusty to save?
Reply #14 - 02/06/13 at 01:00:29
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Here is Mike Gardners tub rebuild , scattered over the first ten pages or so..

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/7-years-of-work-a-lifetime-of-fun_topic6702_pa...

Ihope you have seen the tub rebuilding FAQ.... http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tub-rebuilding-information-thread_topic21836.h...; That reminds me I need to cut and paste that one over here..
  

Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.
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