Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6  Print
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Head gasket replacement woes now an engine rebuild (Read 34186 times)
 
Carls_jeep
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


...

Posts: 1746
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Joined: 10/19/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #60 - 08/08/12 at 02:52:25
Print Post  
Thanks but actually I like making tools more than I like working on something. I have more fun making the tools to do the overhaul than doing the overhaul. It really kicks my interest up when I see I need a special tool and then I step back and start working out the details. It doesn't always work the first time and I may have to redo the tool.

I have the engine lift tool done and will test it tomorrow and post a photo. I'm not really looking forward to sticking the engine back in because I know just how much trouble it can be to get everything lined up by myself and that's why I made the lifting tool. I know it will test my patience so I want to do it early while I'm not tired.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
F Bill
Flatfender Master
*****
Offline



Posts: 1395
Location: ????
Joined: 12/02/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #61 - 08/08/12 at 03:07:21
Print Post  
I know what you mean about making tools. I used to work in an engine change outfit, and I had a bunch of adapters I had made to bolt on the manifolds of engines to lift from. We didn't have a tilter, partly due the space they take vertically, and the fact that we often did not pull hoods either... I made lifting setups for almost every engine I did there, and eventually some got reused quite often. I didn't save any time until the second engine I used one on.

Good lookin engine you got there.. Hope it runs as nice as it looks and stays leak free for ya!
  

Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carls_jeep
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


...

Posts: 1746
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Joined: 10/19/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #62 - 08/08/12 at 12:30:08
Print Post  
Thanks Bill, I doubt if it will be leak free for long, Jeeps just like to leak fluids. Grin It's amazing how many mechanics will use a Rube Goldberg setup to keep from making a tool to do the job right. I have seen some people hurt doing that and since I don't like to get hurt I usually spend time doing it the safe way. Like you said, you may spend a lot of time making a tool but from then on it will save you time and keep you safe. Then everyone wants to borrow the tools you make rather than make their own. Wink I always figured I made it on company or customer time so it was really a shop tool anyway.

« Last Edit: 08/08/12 at 12:43:46 by Carls_jeep »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carls_jeep
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


...

Posts: 1746
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Joined: 10/19/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #63 - 08/10/12 at 17:05:57
Print Post  
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAA,  Grin Annabel is up and running and here is a shot of her loving her new engine as it purrs in her frame.



This morning I pulled the spark plugs, primed the oil galley, spun the engine with the starter until it showed about 10 psi oil pressure, put the plugs in, primed the carb with gas and it tried to start. On the third prime it finally kept running and didn't stop until I turned it off. I checked for leaks and only the lid of the oil filter is leaking. I am working on stopping that leak, it seems to be persistent but I am more persistent so I will win. I drove her in the subdivision to be sure everything is ok and it is.

I took her to Auto Zone to show John, a worker there and Jeep owner, her new engine. He helped me get parts for the rebuild, Auto Zone is starting to discontinue stocking some CJ Jeep parts. I will take her on a long shake down cruse this afternoon.

Look out Utah, here I come. YeeeeHaaaaa.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ryan_M
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
2016 Sponsor Member
2015 Sponsor Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1695
Location: Glenburn, ME
Joined: 12/29/11
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #64 - 08/10/12 at 17:26:18
Print Post  
Looks great! It's been quite an adventure for you. Glad to see it all come together. Thanks for keep us all posted.
  

Current:
'49 CJ3A
'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
Previous:
'46 2A
'51 3A
'52 3A
'52 M38
'54 3B
East Coast Willys Association
Back to top
IP Logged
 
calvinhunt
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


Let's keep these great
American icons alive!

Posts: 1000
Location: Santa Clara, Utah
Joined: 08/02/09
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #65 - 08/10/12 at 18:39:09
Print Post  
Ya mean I've got to prove up on the offer to show you some new trails?  See you in September. 

  

Calvin
Santa Clara, Utah
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BMIC
3A Guru
Owner Member 2012
2016 Sponsor Member
2015 Sponsor Member
****
Offline


Weekend Mechanic

Posts: 406
Location: Little Sebago Lake, Maine
Joined: 11/02/11
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #66 - 08/10/12 at 19:30:19
Print Post  
I will be very happy to have a small oil leak, congrats Carl....
  

We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out... WC
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
athawk11
YaBB Administrator
Owner Member 2012
2016 Sponsor Member
2015 Sponsor Member
*****
Offline


1949 CJ3A

Posts: 2771
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Joined: 01/26/11
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #67 - 08/10/12 at 23:35:55
Print Post  
Congratulations Carl.   Smiley  Very happy to see it come back together.  In the big sceam of things, you only missed a little summer fun, but WOW...think about what you accomplished!!  Terrific!

Tim
  

2-1949 CJ3A 
1-1946 CJ2A
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carls_jeep
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


...

Posts: 1746
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Joined: 10/19/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #68 - 08/11/12 at 02:05:29
Print Post  
Even though there were a lot of set backs and issues it was still fun and a challenge. While I have built a lot of engines in and out of the frame I have never built an L134. I took it for a 16 mile shake down drive and it ran 160-170 deg, about 58 psi oil pressure at 5 deg advance and the only leak was at the oil filter cover and screw. Tomorrow I will re-torque the head and take another trip to help break it in.

It has about 40 psi oil pressure at idle. I double checked the engine temp with an electronic thermometer and the dash gauge is about 6 deg high. It runs real smooth, quiet and steady with no lifter noise and I set the lifters to a loose .016" and tight .017" to allow for the valves to seat in. I was surprised they didn't click a little. When it gets a few hundred miles on it I will check the gap.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
aboyandhisdog
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
2016 Sponsor Member
2015 Sponsor Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 751
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Joined: 12/14/10
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #69 - 08/11/12 at 02:17:15
Print Post  
She's a beaut, Carl!  One question I've always had...can you have oil pressure that is too high?  Are there problems that can develop?  Not saying this is too high, but it is above spec.  What are your thoughts on this?  Is your pressure higher because your tolerances are on the "tight" side, or would any new engine or rebuild be expected to start off with higher pressure and then settle down to spec in time?
  

Tom

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carls_jeep
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


...

Posts: 1746
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Joined: 10/19/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #70 - 08/11/12 at 13:35:10
Print Post  
Oil pressure is a long debated thing. Yes you can have the oil pressure to high in some engines and not enough in others. Having built this engine and dug up all the tolerances and specs I could find I don't think an idle pressure of 30+ and running pressure of 50-60 is to high for my engine. my lube pump is a gear pump not the double rotor pump and I think the relief valve spring may be a little strong but it's not shimmed.

The cam has only one bushing and the rest are cast iron block and the measured clearances were on the high side of the limits so it can use all the oil they can get. I also brazed the .070" hole in the cam gear lube fitting and drilled a new .040" hole and that may have increased the oil pressure.

The pistons have the proper clearance because I bored the block and gave them a .003" easy pull feeler gauge not the 5 lb pull on the feeler gauge mentioned in the manual. I don't want it to tight.

My crank is the one from the engine that was in it when the block failed and having plastigaged it on the mains and rods it is on the high side of the clearance limits and again, it can use all the oil it can get.

I prefer using Rotella T 15w40 oil and have done so since Cummins had issues with Chevron in the late 1970's.

The deal with oil pressure is clearances, rpm and load. NASCAR engines use high flow low pressure and the oil is like water. The idea of thin oil is it flows easy and doesn't have drag on the bearings and likes high rpm's. Thicker oils do better at low rpm and high loads and a lot depends on bearing clearances and bearing surface area. The thing is you will find arguments on both sides of the oil pressure issue.

Since I consider the clearances on my engine on the loose side and I like the pressure on the high side. The relief valve limits the pump pressure at speed but it doesn't control it at idle. Before the rebuild the idle pressure was about 25-30 psi. I checked the lube pump clearances and they are tight and no wear was on the housing or gears. I also made my own gasket for the cover and the clearance was about .005" there so my guess is my pump is real good.  
« Last Edit: 08/11/12 at 13:39:45 by Carls_jeep »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Macgraham
Flatfender Enthusiast
Sponsor Member
***
Offline


Still Plays With Jeeps

Posts: 187
Location: western arizona
Joined: 01/15/12
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #71 - 08/12/12 at 00:38:47
Print Post  
Way to go Carl, I hope I can make it to Utah to see it first hand.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carls_jeep
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


...

Posts: 1746
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Joined: 10/19/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #72 - 08/12/12 at 14:55:59
Print Post  
I too hope you can make it to Blanding, if only to ride along with us on a few trails if you can't bring your Jeep.

Now, I have to tell of an issue that bothered me as I built the engine. When the shop found the two cracks and he said he didn't think they would be a problem I had mixed feelings about it but decided to go with it. When I had the bad stud issue and was prepared to install inserts I still thought they may not help after finding it was the studs and not the threads in the block. Well, all this leads up to the leak that has surfaced after 40 miles of shake down drives.

Yesterday I noticed something seeping from the #1 head bolt nut. I put my cooling system pressure tester on at 7 psi and the seepage was coming up around the thread of the nut, not from under the nut or thermostat housing as I had thought. After some over night thought I decided to put Permatex 2 on the nut thread and bottom of the nut surface to seal the leak there. With as much Copper Coat I put on the Victor 1023K double sided fiber head gasket there is no way the gasket is not sealing all the water transfer ports and the metal seal rings around the combustion chambers will do their job there.

While what Linus told me and what I believed that the two cracks will not be detrimental to the engine, it has reared it's head as a leak that in the bqck of my mind I imagined may happen. If I ever have to pull the head I will pin the block in those two cracks and dress the pins down to the deck and install thread inserts. I don't expect the head gasket to fail because of the leak at the bolt hole but a head gasket can fail at the combustion chamber seal and since the block deck and head surface were both machined flat I don't expect a problem there for as long as I own the Jeep. Only another crack in a combustion chamber would cause an issue.

Now in conclusion, I recommend having your head and block hot tanked and magnafluxed before rebuilding it. I strongly recommend having any cracks in a head or block be pinned no matter where they are or replace them. I also recommend making a torque test sleeve like mine and torque testing the threads in the block to be sure they are solid and will hold the full torque. I recommend the block deck and head be machined flat. I also recommend that you buy a new full set of studs and nuts to eliminate any issues with a failing stud or nut and having to pull the head and replace the studs, nuts and head gasket.

While my leak at the head stud will not cause an engine failure it is an issue in that it leaks. I should have listened to my intuition and had them pinned. Use my experience with this crack issue to eliminate any issues you may have with your rebuild. Since you can't really do an in chassis overhaul of the L134 because the mian bearings are pinned in the block it has to be removed. You will have the opportunity to do it right and not take a short cut as I did.  
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gunslinger
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


Cj3a, M38A1,

Posts: 942
Location: Minneapolis
Joined: 02/06/11
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #73 - 08/15/12 at 01:12:51
Print Post  
Carl, that's a darn shame that you put all that work into it and it's not just exactly right.  After all I went through with my rebuild I can really feel your frustration.  I hope you find that the old girl seals herself up after some miles.  I had a couple leaks in mine as well and they fixed themselves after some miles.  Good luck and I hope you take a chance on Utah, I know how you enjoy it.
Todd
  

Climbs trees, hides in the long grass, hangs out with wet dogs...
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Carls_jeep
Flatfender Master
Owner Member 2012
*****
Offline


...

Posts: 1746
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Joined: 10/19/10
Gender: Male
Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #74 - 08/15/12 at 02:54:52
Print Post  
Well, it didn't bother me to much because I knew it could possibly leak from one or both cracks. After I stopped the leak at #1 stud a day later I noticed a few other leaks at the nut threads. They are just moist so rather than sealing each one I am going to let them seal their selves.

It's just a Jeep and just an engine and a leak like those don't affect the performance of the engine in any way. The engine looks nice when it's freshly overhauled and painted but they never stay that way if you drive them everyday and off road in the water and mud. As long as it performs well I am happy.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 
Print
Bookmarks: Facebook Google Google+ Linked in Twitter Yahoo