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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Head gasket replacement woes now an engine rebuild (Read 34171 times)
 
Carls_jeep
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Head gasket replacement woes now an engine rebuild
05/06/12 at 23:41:38
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Well, it finally happened, I started the Jeep this morning and it missed and coughed and blew white smoke. Bugger, the gasket finally gave up the ghost. After I used it to haul some stuff I put it in the shop and started the tear down. All went well until I tried to get the head off. Won't budge so I put the plug wires back on and tried to start it but no luck, the head had released enough that I had no compression at all.

So I put the nuts back on even with the top of the studs and sprayed them at the head and began tapping on the side of the nuts to loosen the studs. This may take a few days but I hope not weeks.

The temp gauge sender refused to come out and after trying a few tricks I cut the stem off at the sender. I wanted an original looking gauge anyway and my patience was running short.

I wish I could find a trained monkey to spray the studs and tap on them every hour. He would also be handy to remove stuff in close quarters. I would have to be careful he didn't drink up all my beer though.

I have put this job off for over a year now and planned to do it before the Utah trip.
« Last Edit: 05/09/12 at 18:37:43 by Carls_jeep »  
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calvinhunt
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #1 - 05/07/12 at 05:05:03
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There are a few head gaskets made for the L-134 engines, but only one works well.  The others don't usually seal even after all the tricks. At this time I can't remember which one that is, Victor I think.  Could review the threads on the head gasket, I know its been brought up before.  Or, one of the 3A members in the know can share their knowledge here once again.
  

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Carls_jeep
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #2 - 05/07/12 at 13:39:29
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Yes, I bought that gasket and the copper coat over a year ago.
  
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Gunslinger
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #3 - 05/08/12 at 00:29:52
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Hey Carl,
Mine was a bit sticky too, so I stuck a screw driver in between the head and block in three/ four places, directly on the gasket.  Drove them in one at a time and gently lifted the head, messed up the gasket, but that was shot anyway.  Left no scars on the blockor head, but ai had the head shaved anyway.  Go slow, couple taps on each and it will pop loose.
Todd

BTW, Monkeys don't like beer..  they prefer Capt. Morgan.
  

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Carls_jeep
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #4 - 05/08/12 at 03:07:22
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Gunslinger, I pried that head up and down so many times I started to think it was a yo-yo.

The head is off. I pestered it every hour or so until it decided I was more hard headed than it was. It fought me all the way until the last 1/4" of studs was still in the head. I used several pry bars and wood blocks and a lot of PB Blaster. I had to pry it up and tap it down until one of us got tired of it and the head lost. There was two studs that just didn't want to let go and slide out.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to remove the studs so I can clean the deck. It's a good thing it had a head gasket with copper on both sides or the deck could have been damaged. I will probably surface the head.

I will check the cylinder walls tomorrow but it doesn't burn oil and the comp is good so everything should be good. It finally blew between #2 and #3 and was easy to see on the head, gasket and block. I could see where some other possible comp and water leaks were so a close check of the deck is needed. I sure hope the deck is flat.





It just took a few tools to get the head off and a whole lot of patience of which I seldom have much of. For some reason I never got angry, I just got more determined to pester the hell out of it.

  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #5 - 05/08/12 at 18:10:28
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After pestering the studs for about 3 hours I got them all out without breaking any. I did find a few of them bent and probably why it was hard to get the head off.

The old gasket is a Fel-Pro 7285 with copper on both sides and fiber between. I can't find one on line and the new # is 7285B with no copper. Not that I wanted one, just curious.

A few valves that are open show more wear in the guides than I like. Geez, I knew this was going to turn into a long project. Now I have to decide if I want to knurl the guides and do a valve job. I'll waddle back to the shop and clean the deck and start checking things closer.

It's a good thing I have these fellows to drink my beer and advise me on what to do, then again, maybe not. Well, back to work, there's things to break and parts to clean. Oh, BTW, Howard is the white bear, Ezekiel has the McGreggor tie on and the other one is Wilbur. Got to go, they, I mean we want another beer.

Calvin, you might want to show Lucille my advisory staff, she may get a chuckle out of it. I hope her bears don't take the bad habits mine have.

« Last Edit: 05/08/12 at 18:20:58 by Carls_jeep »  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #6 - 05/08/12 at 19:28:03
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   SadI'm back, not that I wanted to be back so soon, it's something I found that was somewhat disparaging and hoping not to find. Hell, the beers and I didn't even get to finish our bears. I don't have to think about the valve guides now and it's a good thing I have a spare bare block and another complete engine to fall back on. Well, I don't intend to fall backwards over them, there just backups.

I know your just dying of curiosity about what I found so here's the picture. Look at it and weep with me Cry or laugh if you so desire. It's your call.



I have to admit that I suspected as much because with the radiator cap on tight it would hydraulic lock in the mornings so I just left the cap loose since I have owned it.

I'll be hauling the block down to the shop to check it over and if it's good I need to find a shop to put bushings in the two cam bores that don't have them. This engine is supposed to be a short block ready to build so we will see if it is. I only want to do this once so I will do it right.

Calvin, do you think I should bore it to the max and put a blower and two carbs on it so I can climb to the top of the Blue Mountain faster than you can?
  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #7 - 05/08/12 at 19:40:42
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Wow, that is serious.. Perhaps a sleeve, a valve seat, and a few lock-n-stitch pins would cure it but it wouldn't be cheap. Sorry to hear of your bad luck. Now you get the opportunity to post a cool step by step on repairing the damage, or rebuilding another engine.....Better hurry , the trails are calling!
  

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Carls_jeep
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #8 - 05/08/12 at 20:49:23
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Yes, I won't toss it, it can be repaired and I don't know yet how good the spare block I have is. I'm trying to remove the studs now and clean the deck and bores and check it out.

Yes, this may turn into a book but that's part of the fun and work. When I get through with this rebuild I will have an good knowledge about the L134 engine.

BTW, each cylinder on the engine in the Jeep has a letter stamped by the bore. They are #1-C #2-E #3-E #4-F and what do they mean. It seems I have read about that but I guess it didn't interest me at the time.
« Last Edit: 05/08/12 at 20:56:48 by Carls_jeep »  
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calvinhunt
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #9 - 05/09/12 at 06:47:54
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Carls_jeep wrote on 05/08/12 at 18:10:28:
Calvin, you might want to show Lucille my advisory staff, she may get a chuckle out of it. I hope her bears don't take the bad habits mine have.

I think its too late.  Even though Lucille's bears put on a good front, that of being very proper and culturally refined (see pic--cookies and milk while studying poetry and prose), we know that each time we leave they invite their friends over and have a wild party.  Their names, left to right, are Celeya, Tarquin, Koda, Ikaika, and the professor, Protius. Lucille enjoyed meeting your bears.



Really too bad about your engine problem.  When I saw the photo with the cracked block between the cylinder and the valve I expected it to be an exhaust valve, but this looks like #3 intake.  With my aviation background, airplane engines always crack between the cylinder and the exhaust valve.  Airplanes have aluminum heads with steel seats.  Such cracks are common with the high coefficient of expansion of aluminum. We'll be anxious to learn the condition of your spare engine after you've had a chance to check it out.  Good Luck!!!
« Last Edit: 05/09/12 at 06:49:25 by calvinhunt »  

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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #10 - 05/09/12 at 15:02:30
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Carl,
There is something seriously wrong here, or maybe I just don't understand.. I thought bears drank Honeyweiss?
Grin Grin Grin
Too bad about the motor, hope you get her fixed up.. My mechanic will sleeve an engine for $75.00 a hole, that includes the machining to size.
Todd
  

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Re: Head gasket replacement woes
Reply #11 - 05/09/12 at 18:31:05
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Tell Lucille that here bears are a still good little bears even if they get a little rowdy on occasion.

Gunslinger, my bears will drink almost any adult beverage and I can tell them anything and they never rat me out.

Well, back to the engine, I will take it to a shop to hot tank and check for cracks and go from there. I got it stripped down this morning. I will take it to a shop tomorrow.
  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #12 - 05/10/12 at 04:14:38
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Spent the day tearing down, pulling plugs and cleaning the spare block a little and it doesn't show any cracks so far. I pulled the crank and can say for sure you can't roll the upper bearing shells out of an L134. All three upper bearing shells are pinned in the block. What a stupid thing to do. If they had pinned the bearing caps you could do an in chassis overhaul without dropping the crank. Oh well, the engines come out pretty easy.

I did some measuring and it looks like I'll have to bore it .020" over. Oh goody, I get to use my Kwik-Way boring bar.

I can't count the times I laid under a vehicle and rolled upper shells out and new ones in. If I didn't lay a fender cover over me from neck down I would have a polka dot shirt. That brings back some harsh memories.

Tomorrow it goes to the shop to be cleaned and checked for cracks. I'll have my head checked for cracks too, well, not my head but the Jeeps head. I am trying to decide if I want to yank the engine out of the Jeep while the block is in the shop or wait a while.
« Last Edit: 05/10/12 at 04:16:14 by Carls_jeep »  
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Carls_jeep
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #13 - 05/10/12 at 18:47:32
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I took the block to the shop today and we talked about installing cam bushing in all the bores. He said he has not done that, their machine won't go that small. He had not heard of anyone doing that.

He has a huge stack of old parts catalogs that I can look through and they list bushings by ID and cross reference them to what they fit in.

Until I find someone that has actually put bushings in all the bores in an L134 I will consider that to be an Urban Legend, not fact. I was going to take about 6 months to build a spare engine for my Jeep and if I had to I would make a boring bar to do the cam bores and even make the bushings. I don't really want to take the time to do that right now, I want the engine built and back in the Jeep in a month.
  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #14 - 05/10/12 at 22:50:26
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Carl,  what would cause a crack like that?
  

Tom

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