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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Head gasket replacement woes now an engine rebuild (Read 34169 times)
 
Carls_jeep
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #15 - 05/11/12 at 04:29:01
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I'm not sure but I'll guess overheating and that's why I think there may be other cracks in that block I haven't seen yet. I'm going to keep it and probably have it hot tanked and magnfluxed just to find out. It can be repaired if that's the only crack.

I would suspect that #3 and 4 would run hotter than #1 and 2 if low on water but that's just a guess. There is probably some info out there about that.

It will be a week or so before I will know something about my spare block and head.

I didn't realize it at the time but I guess someone was looking out for me when the stranger walked up and offered to sell me a Jeep he was going to haul to the scrap yard. Looks like I'm using parts and pieces.
« Last Edit: 05/11/12 at 04:37:07 by Carls_jeep »  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #16 - 05/14/12 at 01:00:45
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Hey Carl,
I took my block to a guy that makes a living building race engines.  He wanted to put cam bearings in as well cause thats what he does.  Same problem, his boring macine did not have the depth to do the cam seats.  We ended up accepting what Mr. Willys intended, which is pushing enough oil up there to flaot the cam.  So far ,so good.
Todd
  

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Carls_jeep
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #17 - 05/14/12 at 02:01:21
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I have been doing a lot of searching about cam bushings in the block and so far it is an Urban Legend. I talked to Carl Walck for a long time the other day and he said he has never found or heard of a shop that has bored the block and put cam bushings in it. He said many years ago he knew a retired machinist that had an engine failure and ate up the cam bores.

This was years ago when blocks were a dime a dozen but the machinist wanted to repair the block so he made a line boring bar and bored the block out and then made bushing for each hole. He said that is the only block he has ever seen or heard of having cam bushings in all the bores.

Sean gave me the bore sizes for the cam bores and the deck height and according to what Sean and Carl W told me I will check my block when I get it back. If the bores are not egg shaped and very close to factory spec I will not put bushings in it. I don't really have the time to do that now. I need it running soon, there are to many other things to do to get ready for Utah. I may not even get it painted this year. In fact, if I run out of money I may not make Utah this year. Not much work is coming in and a lot  or money is going out.

I have thought about this engine failure and I am glad it happened now rather than on the trails in Utah. It would have spoiled the trip for sure. Yes, I could possibly borrow Calvins friends Jeep but I don't like to do that, especially for as much as I would be driving it. I think this failure at this time was for a reason. Over the years I have come to realize things happen for a reason. I have seen this to many times and in fact I think that stranger coming up to me and offering the CJ2 to me he was going to scrap out was for a reason and it came with the block I am hoping to use in my Jeep now.

When I pick up my replacement block I will look through the cam bushing cross reference catalogs he has to see if any bushing match the OD of the #2-3-4 cam journals and if I find some I will record the numbers for future use. He said I may have to buy three different bushing sets just to get one bushing out of each box.  

What I will do is save my block and at some point I will have it hot tanked and magnafluxed for any more cracks and if that is the only crack I will sleeve it and pin it. I will then make my own line boring bar and bore the block. Then if I found factory bushings I will bore the block to fit them. If I can't find correct bushings I will make them. That is a project that is on a back burner for sure.
« Last Edit: 05/14/12 at 02:04:05 by Carls_jeep »  
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Carls_jeep
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #18 - 05/16/12 at 20:17:54
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I haven't heard from the shop about my block yet, however, I have been busy pulling the engine, putting it on the cheap Horrible Freight engine stand for 750 lbs. that I had to modify some to mount the block as it's not designed for a 4 cyl inline. I will make some permanent changes later but it will do for now.

There is very little cyl wear on this block so the pistons came out easy.

When I pulled the rods the bearing halves looked real good with no worn through spots or streaking on them and looked to have even wear top and bottom through out. When I pulled crank the bottom halves were good looking with no streaking or wear but the top halves are another story. The top half shells had dirt deposits on them right at the top center and that told me the bearing clearance was to much and/or the oil seldom got changed. The rods and mains are .010" undersize.

I then measured the rod journals and found them to be 1.9280"-.9286" and should be 1.9265"-.9275". So, the rod journals were ground slightly over size. I will plastigauge the bearings to be sure of the running clearances that they are in spec.

I measured the main journals and they ran 2.3232"-.3233" and should be 2.3231"-.3241". Since the thrust is downward the lower shell usually shows more wear but there was none. The dark area on the center top shell is probably from the excess clearance and dirty oil. The mains are on the low side of spec. and they will be plastigauged. The pan has a good amount of sludge in it alluding to the fact the oil was seldom changed.

The spare crank is also .010" under and is closer to to the tolerances than the crank in my current engine. There is a possibility I will use the spare crank if I don't like the bearing gap. The oil pressure was always on the high side so the pump is probably good. I found out many of the American bearing, rings and piston companies still make them for these Jeeps and are reasonably priced. American parts will go in this engine if I can get them and so far I can.

So far, installing cam bushings in all four bores is an Urban Legend because Carl Walcks said he knows of no one that can or has done it except for the retired machinist he knew. If the spare block is close to spec it will get used and this cracked block will be saved for experimentation. I talked to my friend in Springfield Mo and he said stiching the block is a piece of cake and I may take it with me when I him visit and we will repair that cyl. if that's the only crack. His cam line boring tool is not small enough to do this block so I will have to make my own. He will loan me a drive unit.

I have started taking photo's of this job and will post a few as it goes along. Here's one of parts and pieces.

« Last Edit: 05/16/12 at 20:24:51 by Carls_jeep »  
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calvinhunt
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #19 - 05/17/12 at 04:54:22
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Well, it looks like your off to the races.  Hope you pick a winning horse.  Good luck, my friend.

Thanks for keeping us informed and including pics.
  

Calvin
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #20 - 05/18/12 at 15:46:06
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Carl, remember if you're going to Springfield, MO the Midwest Willys show in Jefferson City, MO is usually in September sometime.

Good luck with the engine rebuild, that was the funnest part for me (sure beats body work... Sad)
  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #21 - 05/18/12 at 17:39:01
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I'll have to check that out. I may be able to go if the date is right.

Day before yesterday I had a frightful happening. Last week when I pulled the cam out of the spare engine I noticed it had different intake cam lobes. When I pulled the cam out of my engine I saw the intake and exhaust lobes were the same. I emailed BobW and looked at the F enigine in the manual and I saw the rocker arm was about a 2:1 ratio and suddenly realized the cam is an F cam in the spare engine. Then I began to wonder about whether the block had 4 ports or 6. It was to late to call them yesterday but this morning I called them and he looked and it has 6 ports and is an L block. I was sure I had checked that but the mind plays tricks sometimes and I had doubts about what I saw and remembered.

He has not started on the block and said he will start next week that was good and bad news but I was hoping he had at least hot tanked it by now.

  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #22 - 05/29/12 at 21:47:08
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Last week I was told the block is checked and has a small crack between the oval water hole in the center of the block to a bolt hole. The shop said that is not a real issue and Walcks said the same thing about the crack. I will pick up the block when they have the parts I ordered from them. I also ordered from Walcks and Auto Zone so I could spread the wealth around and get the best prices. It is next to impossible to get NOS parts for a rebuild now without spending a lot of time which I don't have. When I get the block I will have to replace the valve guides, bore the cylinders .020" over and grind the valve seats before I can start assembling the engine.

I found out my lube pump is an aftermarket pump with two spur gears instead of the Willys stock pump. I like the aftermarket pump better and Walcks said they may have a cover gasket. If not I will have to make my own gasket.

  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #23 - 06/04/12 at 19:16:54
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Here's the cracks in the block. I don't think I will do anything to them, what do you think BobW, Rocketeer, others? The shop manager said he would use the block as is.

« Last Edit: 06/04/12 at 19:18:03 by Carls_jeep »  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #24 - 06/04/12 at 19:34:45
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Carl,
Are those cracks going from the coolant passage to the head bolts holes?  Its hard to tell, but if that is the case then the coolant will have no place to go, provided they don't bleed across the head gasket to the piston.  Can you clarify that position?
Todd
  

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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #25 - 06/05/12 at 01:28:20
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Yes, it has a crack at each bolt hole going to the oval water transfer hole. The only place the water could leak is between the gasket and surfaces. Having thought about it since I was told the cracks were there I have come to the conclusion the only thing it might do is get coolant around the two studs.

I have considered heating the block at the cracks to about 150 and working a high temp locktite into the crack or two part epoxy. I will have some time to study the cracks while I am boring the cylinders. I'm not above using a little VooDoo on it if I think it will work. I DON'T want to weld it or pin it.

I am considering using locktite on the studs in those two holes to seal them and to spread the stress of the torque.

Ideas anyone? The shop manager said leave them alone and put it together and they have done a lot of engines. Then there is what a parts dealer told a friend when he started asking questions, "It's a f***ing Jeep, put it together".

I have been looking at the cracks since I got the block back and I can't see any sign that they are more than 1/16" deep. There is no sign of them down in the threads nor is there any sign down the side of the casting in the block by the water hole.

I think I have all the parts to assemble it now and so far it's $795 including the outside shop work. I may get by lighter than I thought as long as the snowball doesn't start rolling down hill.
« Last Edit: 06/05/12 at 01:50:16 by Carls_jeep »  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #26 - 06/05/12 at 02:33:22
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This is an interesting situation, Carl.  I'll put my full ignorance on display here...wouldn't you want to stick this block in a freezer before you try to fill those cracks?  Wouldn't they open up from the cold so that you could get more sealant in there?  I know from a lot of years of crack filling roads, it was best to do it in the winter when it is cold outside.  Just a question here...I know very little about cracked blocks.
  

Tom

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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #27 - 06/05/12 at 03:48:46
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No, on metal heating it expands everything and cracks or drilled holes all expand. But since I am not heating the whole block I don't know if it will expand the crack or close it up. My thoughts are it will expand. That's another puzzle that's on my mind. Tomorrow I'm going to use a high power magnifier to see if I can see anything. In the back of my mind something keeps saying, just put it together Carl and quit nit picking.

This is why it takes me forever to do something, I ponder the issue too much.
  
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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #28 - 06/05/12 at 16:33:42
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Carl, try this:
Clean up the area around the crack really good with a high volitile cleaner, even rubbing alchoholw ill work but its a little slow.  You want all the grease and oil gone.  When its dry you can put a Kroil or other penetrating oil on it, but just a little, use an eye dropper.  Let that sit for about 2 minutes and wipe the surfaces with a clean rag with a little cleaner on it.  Don't soak it.  when it dries shake some talcom powder over the area.  The talc will pull the oil out of the crack and you will be able to look down the holes and see how deep the crack goes.  Or maybe your buddy at the machine shop has a "liquid Penetrant test kit"  This is the same technique with kitchen tools.
Todd
  

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Re: Head gasket replacement woes now an engine reb
Reply #29 - 06/05/12 at 19:14:05
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Carls_jeep wrote on 06/04/12 at 19:16:54:
Here's the cracks in the block. I don't think I will do anything to them, what do you think BobW, Rocketeer, others? The shop manager said he would use the block as is.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/yeathatshim/P6040006.jpg


Carl: I know I'm jumping in late here, but I would not recommend using ANY cracked L-Head block. I went through this with my first L-Head and after magna-fluxing I had a crack pinned. After numerous issues with over-heating, foamy oil, and poor performance, a closer examination of my block yeilded more cracks like the ones you show above. End of story... I got a Kaiser re-manned block that was in storage in a barn for years and never used. Wish I had made the decision from the get go! I thought I had some of the pics posted here somewhere, but I can't find them.

It's a lot of work and money to put her all back together with a cracked block and only have to do it over again. I drive my 3A now with no worries about being left stranded somewhere... those worries were always in the back of my head every time I drove and got the sweet smell of coolant burning in my exhaust.

Just something to think about...

Mike
  

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