Hello from Colorado

[DaveG]

Hey Guys,

I have been a Jeep nut since I was 2 years old and riding around with a family friend in his CJ6.  I got pretty serious about CJ7s for many years and even got into rock crawling competition. 

A couple weeks ago I picked up a 51 M38 and a 49 CJ3a.  Gonna do a full restore on the M38.  Not sure yet what I will do with the CJ3a.

Looking forward to getting to know you guys.

Dave

[Bruce_W]

   Hello Dave, and Welcome! In what part of Colorful Colorado are you located? I'm northeast of Greeley a little ways, or 25 miles East of Fort Collins.  BW

[DaveG]

� �Hello Dave, and Welcome! In what part of Colorful Colorado are you located?� BW

I live near Del Norte about 50 miles from New Mexico.

[athawk11]

Hi Dave.� Welcome.

I'm in Arvada, CO.�

Tell us more about the new flat fenders.� Did you find them locally?� Was it a package deal?� Condition?� Do they move under their own power?� Do you have some photos?� Do you know any of the history?

Again, welcome to the 3A. 8-)

Tim

[DaveG]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, they were a package deal.  I found these about 10 miles from home out behind a barn.  They were inherited and had sat there for 32 years.  The both ran when parked but I have not tried them yet.  Having been in our fairly dry climate they really have very little rust.  The 3a does have some below the door on the tub.  On the M38 the windshield frame is pretty rough.  Really good candidates though. 

[Bruce_W]

� �Hello Dave, and Welcome! In what part of Colorful Colorado are you located?� BW

I live near Del Norte about 50 miles from New Mexico.

Boy, we couldn't be much further apart and still be in the same state, could we?
  Both jeeps look like likely candidates to me! Nice find!    BW

[athawk11]

Wow. Great photos.� The M38 looks real nice.� The 3A looks to be a mixture of a number of Willys products.

-2A, or possible MB/GPW frame.
-Early 2A grille or posssible modified M38 grill
-M38 windshield
-MB or GPW tub
-MB or GPW seat frames

In fact, I'm not seeing much 3A there at all.� It's still a beauty though. Can you post a bunch more photos?

Back side, dash area, rear wheel house, engine compartment, and maybe some shots of the underside?� On the frame, is there a flat steel plate on one of the rear cross members?� (between the frame and the bottom of the tub in the cargo area)� � The frame support crossing under the radiator...is it square or tubular?

Thanks,

Tim

[DaveG]

Yeh Bruce, pretty much opposite ends of the state.

Tim, I don't doubt you.  My knowledge about these years is extremely limited.  Here is the number on the frame...
25407-02-278
014-N6502

I have not found any other numbers yet.

The frame support under the radiator is tubular.  I did not see a plate on a rear crossmember but did not crawl under it.  The seats appear to be correct for the tub as everything matches perfectly with the fuel tank. 

I was told that the only difference between the 3a and M38 windshield frames was a couple brackets and slightly different wiper motors.  Was that incorrect?

Not trying to be argumentative, really.  I do want to learn more about these.  Here are some more pics.  Hopefully they will help.

Thanks,

Dave

[Ryan_M]

The 3A looks to be a mixture of a number of Willys products.

-2A, or possible MB/GPW frame.
-Early 2A grille or posssible modified M38 grill
-M38 windshield
-MB or GPW tub
-MB or GPW seat frames

Good eyes Tim. I knew a bunch of stuff wasn't 3A but you added some explanation. I love these threads.

And DaveG, great find and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress. Nothing gets one dreaming like a couple Willys carcasses rescued from a scenic field....keep the pics coming.

[athawk11]

Dave,

You have a very exciting find.� That is a WWII vintage MB that looks to be in pretty good condition.

The grill is early 2A.
The windshield is an M38.

Everything else I am seeing is MB.� The engine head is military or very early 2A. That may mean the whole engine is a military chain drive, but we won't know that for sure until you uncover the casting numbers on the block.

On the windshield, the easy way to tell the difference between a 3A and an M38...

 M38:� �The vent opening in the center just below the glass is bolted shut with the 2 brackets crossing vertically over the outside face.

3A:� �The same vent is hinged with a handle on the inside.� It can be opened for some fresh air.

 As you mentioned, the wiper motors are different.

All said, you have two very, very nice Willys.� Both are worthy of restoration.� Congratulations!! 8-)

Tim

[Bruce_W]

Very Nice! The "3A" looked like a very nice find, now it appears to be an MB, it's even nicer! Frame tag (inside left frame rail just behind front bumper) looks very good, should tell us a lot. You didn't find the glove box door laying around there somewhere, did you?
  The M38 appears to be a very nice find, too. 
   Bring 'em over to Buena Vista next month and let us look 'em over!   BW

[F Bill]

Wow, tht goes to prove they are still out there waiting for us to find them.. From what I can tell you have a MB with a M38 windshield (bolted vent door)  as well as a M38 grille. ( I can see where the M 38 headlight guards were) Chances are this was all done  a long time ago. Hood and fenders are MB, you can see the headlight brackets and voltage regulator brackets in your pictures. You can also see the Frame ID tag on the inside of the left front frame rail behind the bumper. That is the ID number to use in registering that jeep.

Drivers seat is original MB, has the opening for the large mouth gas tank underseat. Passenger seat may be either M38 or CJ, has a taller back to it.

While no glove box door is there you have the plate on the left front frame rail and can get a pepro made up that will look original. You may have to estimate the DOD (date of delivery)

PLEASE.....do your research on the correct parts, and markings before you dig in. Careful sanding or use of mild strippers can often reveal the original hood numbers and as you seem to have your original hood it would be well worth trying to find it. Don't toss anything, and take plenty of pictures. You probably know about the g 503.com website and steel soldiers and willysmjeeps  sites.

The M38 is no slouch either...You hit the mother lode there.. Hopefully nature was kind to the internals.

Congratulations and enjoy!!

[F Bill]

Looking at the engine I am not sure what that is. I do not see the classic oval pad on the right side, instead I see a raised round circle. in the same location. If there is no side oval pad for the serial number, perhaps it has a serial number stamped in the flat area behind that front heater hose in the pics.

You seem to have an original air filter setup, but no oil filter mounted on the head, or fuel filter on the right firewall. (Very late MB's did not have a firewall mounted fuel filter IIRC. )

From what I see in your pics it is hard to tell if you still have the t-84 or if your tranny has been replaced by the T 90. I think I see the shift tower has the shift rails in it like the t-90 but my eyes might be playing tricks on me, as I see no sign of any floor modifications to accommodate a t-90.

These threads are fun! Every time you think you have the jeep figured out you see something else to talk about.

[F Bill]

The plate mentioned on the frame crossmember....

is a machine gun mounting plate...and if you look at the rear floor right where it comes up between the front seats you will notice an area in the front floor seam that has a rounded protrusion tha ta ten inch or so circle would match.  If you complete the circle on the floor directly below it you will find a crossmember with a bracket on it that is welded to the top of the crossmember directly under the floor. That is where a machine gun mount similar to what you might have seen in Rat Patrol reruns would bolt to the floor. That would verify a WWII frame, as would the front bellcrank mount being on the front axle instead of the bottom of the radiator crossmember.

You do have the full floater rear axle, another WWII feature.
Top bows appear to be aftermarket but are similar to the WWII ones , just mounted to the tub differently.

I gotta go wipe the drool off my keyboard now.

[DaveG]

Hey Guys,

That is some really cool info!!  Got me all excited now.  I will get out there later today and see what other info I can get off it.  Maybe get that stereo off the dash and get a look at the id plates underneath it.

Thanks for educating me and keep it coming.

Dave

BTW- What is a Buena Vista next month?