CJ3B hand brake cable installation

[rkmiller]

I am trying to install a hand brake or emergency brake cable on a CJ3B jeep rebuild.  I have a 1959 with the cane style handle in the center of the dash so I figured from the willys parts book it was the 48 inch vs 65 inch cable.

I routed the cable through the firewall hole and attached the sheath to the bracket.  Then I routed the cable down along the firewall past the bell housing and over the top of the transmission frame cross member where I attached another fastener.  Now the E-brake cable is about 4 inches too long.

All the parts companies like Kaiser-willys only list 48 inch and 65 inch E-brake cables and I don't see another length in the reproduced parts book.

What in the heck am I doing wrong?

On a side note, I really miss Walk's as he knew what he was talking about and was helpful vs Kaiser Willys staff.

[Rus Curtis]

rk,
Is this your first post?  If the welcome was omitted, welcome aboard!

First, your jeep has a "cane" handle but in the middle of the instrument panel.  This could be the dreaded "what I see" vs. what everyone reads.  To ensure we are talking the same, the cane handle is typically attached near the bottom of the instrument panel located in a special shaped "dimple" to align the brake handle with the hole in the firewall - along a brace that connects the instrument panel with the firewall. 

https://cj3b.info/Tech/BrakeCable.html

That alignment angles the cane handle slightly towards the driver.

The late model 3B uses the "T-handle" mounted higher up and straight out of the instrument panel to align it with the hole in the firewall (I don't have one of these so I can't confirm if there's a brace but have seen posted pictures showing a clip on the outside of the firewall that keeps everything secure).

https://cj3b.info/Dating/Dating1.html

Your 59 seems to be right there at the transition.  Which instrument panel location do you have?


Yes, there are different lengths but there are also different arms too.  But, there are also different hand brake arms too.  Thanks to Charlie, there is some good info as well as confirmation from Oldtime about routing.  Your cable is routed down the passenger side, right?

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/installing-e-brake-cable-t6305.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/parking-brake-help-t4308.html

I will also advise that some really old links have been "repurposed" for other websites. 

Also, if you're able, posting pictures will help.  Others may immediately identify the issue.

[rkmiller]

Yes, this is my first post here.  I have done some other jeeps, but not a CJ3B.

Upon research, I have the longer lever at the parking brake drum with one hole on the end and the other in the middle.  It has the cane style handle in the middle of the dash.

Here are a couple of photos.

[rkmiller]

Here were were attempting to route the parking brake and it is going out further toward the generator.  When routing it to get the sheath to line up at the firewall retaining clip and the retaining clip at the transmission cross member we had to route it much closer to the firewall down the passenger side bell housing and then over the transmission cross member to a retaining clip there.

I have done mostly M38 jeeps and other vehicles from the 60's and 30's stuff, but on the CJ3B there were more variations and this one was partially taken apart over the years before we found it.  I am teaching my two sons some stuff, so we dug into this and rebuilt the tub, then the entire drive train I had a mechanic friend help us get the axles/transmission/transfer and engine rebuilt.  It has been a lot of work and these smaller problems add up to slowing things down as with most rebuilds/restorations.

I was on the old CJ3B.info forums, but this is my first post here.

[Rus Curtis]

Okay, now that I can see your instrument panel, I see you have the early style hand brake.  My reference of bottom is there with your cane handle on that dimple.  The later style (from the CJ3B Page) shows the T handle same area but higher up.  So we can concentrate on the early style.

Your brace under the dash is in place?  And the triangular brace on the outside of that hole is what you've clamped the outer sleeve to?  Yes, the correct routing is down the right (passenger side) to connect to the Rear Engine Support (the crossmember that the transmission sits on).  It then angles across to the drivers side and connects to the brake lever.  Once the outer sleeve is connected via the clamps, that routing is set and the inner cable should attach to the back of the cane handle and the brake lever.

I had the long lever and it was too long and too far out.  You're saying with the longer arm, your cable is still about 4" too long?  I'm wondering about that cable.  Will the cable connect to the outer most hole on the lever?

Like this from the CJ3B Page:

[rkmiller]

Thanks for the help!  Yes I connect the pin and yoke from the cable to the outer hole and the 48 inch cable is still about 4 inches too long.  I am thinking about getting one of the 44 inch cables that the suppliers list for CJ3A and not for M38.

Or am I running the cable too close to the firewall and need to let it go more outward toward the generator?

My kids threw out the old one from when we took it apart a year ago or something as we cannot find it.

I have had trouble with other Kaiser Willys reproduction parts like the exhaust header pipe, the engine stay cable, etc.  Those parts all did not come close to fitting and when I compared them to the old part on the jeep the repro stuff just wasn't the right shape, length, etc.  It has been rather frustrating and their staff has not been very friendly.

Here are some more clear photos of the parts.

[Rus Curtis]

Go back and look at the image with the 3 different levers.  Notice the M38 bends the opposite direction.  This seems to support a longer M38 cable.  Lots of details to keep up with so I'm not 100% sure.  What I believe you will run into is the longer arm will be too far out once you get the correct cable.  That was my problem.  With the proper cable on and the proper lever, it all fits together.

This is Buddy Wade's set up (he was gracious enough to allow me to crawl all over/under his original '55).  Notice the orientation and length of the arm.  Those differences are spelled out in the links in my earlier post. 



I seem to recall info more specifically on the cables.  I'll see if I can locate that.

Added:  Routing for CJ2A.  Ours is the same

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/ebrake-clip_topic36651_post344215.html?KW=cable+clips#344215

More Added:

This is a quote from Oldtime (Ken) with reference to an M606 Hand brake clarification:

The "Tee" type (not cane type) parking cable should be clamped in that location.
The correct cable for model CJ-3B/M606 is 63-5/8" not 69" as was previously posted.
The 69" cable is for CJ-5 and M38A1 with T90 transmission.
The routing is the same AFTER the cable exits the firewall.
Use one special clip on the side of the bellhousing.
Use a cable end clamp that mounts on top of the transmission support crossmember.

This was referencing the "T" handle NOT the "Cane" handle.  I did post in one of those threads my cable length was a bit over 44"

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/viewtopic.php?p=44512#p44512

[SteveKfl]

rkmiller   Welcome to the site, and THANKS for the pics.  What a beautiful job you have done so far.  Thanks for getting your sons in on the project, especially as you are doing it right.  Hopefully they will continue the interest in Willys Jeeps as they mature from your introduction and experiences.  I don't have a CJ3B, or cane e-brake, so I'm no help to you.  Rus is excellent source and great at sharing his knowledge and research capabilities.
 
Since I have a DJ3A, I can appreciate your KW comments.  They won't even admit DJs exist or existed.  Too bad Walcks is no longer in business, but he deserves his retirement.
 
Good Luck with your project, and please keep us updated with the progress.  Looks great so far!
SteveK

[rkmiller]

I am going on Army duty for 2 weeks, but I think I need to check the adjustment on the parking brake shoes to see if they are adjusted properly.  Maybe the shoes are out too far and it is allowing the lever to come it too much to make contact.  When I push the lever all the way forward to the off position the cable is about 2-4 inches too long.  The reproduction cable was way too thick to go into the slot on the end of the cane handle and I had to spread it a fair bit to get it in - so another reproduction parts issue! My other thought is to purchase the 44 inch cable and see if it works - that one appears to be a plastic sheath vs the more original metal.  When I check the blue parts book, it seems the 48 inch one should be the correct length.  There were a lot of changes to the CJ3B throughout production and it gets confusing at times.

[SteveKfl]

Thanks for your service.  After you adjust the e-brake, why not just shorten the existing cable you have mounted?... or take up the slack of it in the loop path.  Keeps original looking sheath also, not plastic which would be more obviously "not original"... IMO.

[Rus Curtis]

Another option.  Couldn't hurt to send an inquiry to find out what the outer sheath looks like.

https://ocpnw.com/wagner-fc38203-brake-cable-1948-1962-willys-jeep-cj-2a-cj-3a-cj-3b-hand-lever/

[rkmiller]

Hey,  I did cut down the threaded end by two inches before I realized the ball at the handle was temporarily stuck farther up on the inside on one of the notches so when that came loose and rested where it should at the end of the handle I was again short by two inches but was out of threaded rod to adjust.

I have a little time today before I go to try and loop it farther out and see if I can get the sheath ends right at both clip anchor points. 

I wish there was some way to give feed back on a few parts with Kaiser Willys, but when I try (in a very gentle way) the staff get very defensive.  I am definitely not trying to denigrate Kaiser Willys, but it sure would be nice to be able to talk to them.  BTW they did use a few of the M38/CJ parts photo identification comparisons without permission from Wes Knettle and I, which I called them about and after some discussion I sent them updated files from our website - willysmjeeps.com- to use because I feel in the long run it will help others and that was the goal in making those photo documents.

[Rus Curtis]

I have a little time today before I go to try and loop it farther out and see if I can get the sheath ends right at both clip anchor points...

Absolutely necessary.  Not only does it set/define the length (where the "loop" or the rest of the cable can be routed in a way it's not sticking out or flopping), but it also creates the anchor needed to allow the inner cable to do its job.
 

I wish there was some way to give feed back on a few parts with Kaiser Willys, but when I try (in a very gentle way) the staff get very defensive.  I am definitely not trying to denigrate Kaiser Willys, but it sure would be nice to be able to talk to them.  BTW they did use a few of the M38/CJ parts photo identification comparisons without permission from Wes Knettle and I, which I called them about and after some discussion I sent them updated files from our website - willysmjeeps.com- to use because I feel in the long run it will help others and that was the goal in making those photo documents.

I've offered corrections, i.e. questions from customers about some of their products to correct errors (siting that the intent is to improve accuracy) they seem very appreciative but never edit the wrong info or adjust anything - even when documentation is shared.  I've also noted for many years some items are mislabeled.  It really does pay to know what you have and what you need before ordering.  Mistakes happen.  It's what's done after that to make it right that makes a vendor stand out.   My preference has been to only order from them if I can find no other alternative.