Engine block crack

[Toms1951]

After two years and a move 1600 miles to NE Montana, I finally completed my CJ3A go devil engine.  About two hours into running I started getting steam into the exhaust plume and had a pretty good flow of a water mix coming out the muffler’s small low point drain hole at shut down.  Very dishearten, I decided to pull the head. The engine was bored and sleeved back to standard size. I used the Felpro 7285B gasket with 5 studs under the removable oil filter  and air tube brackets and bolts for the remainder of the fasteners.  I  torqued the head down in three steps. I’ve attached the photos that show a crack, between number 3 and 4.  I believe this is the path for coolant into the combustion chamber of number 4.

The machinist supposedly leak checked it after machining and has a good reputation for working on classic motors. He is also 1600 miles away in West Texas. 

I can only think that lock and stitch will fix this permanently, but the sleeve is adjacent to it.  I also found the sleeve is .005 inches below the head surface.  Shown in the second photo, which I believe is another issue

I have some money into this motor, so for now I will attempt a Best copper gasket, all studs for assembly, and lubricant on threads and a retire after the first couple of runs.  Hopeful to stop the leak. 

Open to any other suggestions.

[Toms1951]

I meant to re-torque after the first and some subsequent runs not retire….

[Mark W.]

A copper gasket is less likely to seal something like that then a Fel Pro composite. But a question was the Block decked? it doesn't look like it to me. If you had the Block decked .005 to .007" it would flush up those sleeves. Granted thats a PITA but it would take care of it. As to the leak are you talking about the little chip looking hole? If it were me I would first find out if that reaches the water jacket.

Also you do not put any lube on the stud threads it will screw up your torque numbers clean and dry with a generous coating of Pematex II on the thread that go into the Block and screw the studs in figure tight (should run up to the center section) then allow the sealer to set up for 24hrs. Spray a Fel Pro gasket with copper Indian Head sealer and then Torque to spec. After about 10 hours run time and after the engine reaches room temp after a run retorque.

[Rus Curtis]

After two years and a move 1600 miles to NE Montana, I finally completed my CJ3A go devil engine.  About two hours into running I started getting steam into the exhaust plume and had a pretty good flow of a water mix coming out the muffler’s small low point drain hole at shut down.  Very dishearten, I decided to pull the head. The engine was bored and sleeved back to standard size. I used the Felpro 7285B gasket with 5 studs under the removable oil filter  and air tube brackets and bolts for the remainder of the fasteners.  I  torqued the head down in three steps. I’ve attached the photos that show a crack, between number 3 and 4.  I believe this is the path for coolant into the combustion chamber of number 4.

The machinist supposedly leak checked it after machining and has a good reputation for working on classic motors. He is also 1600 miles away in West Texas.

I can only think that lock and stitch will fix this permanently, but the sleeve is adjacent to it.  I also found the sleeve is .005 inches below the head surface.  Shown in the second photo, which I believe is another issue

I have some money into this motor, so for now I will attempt a Best copper gasket, all studs for assembly, and lubricant on threads and a retire after the first couple of runs.  Hopeful to stop the leak.

Open to any other suggestions.

Copy/paste so I can read your post.

Can't say for sure if issues like this crack are always existent and therefore should have been found or that could possibly be unnoticeable and then become a problem only after getting it running.  I assume the sleeve should be flush - perhaps that's something that should have been caught and I can imagine it contributed to this. 

I've read on the 2A forum about mixed reviews on the copper gasket.  Installing one may or may not help.

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/antifreeze-up-from-center-stud-and-two-inner-plugs_topic55224_post573837.html?KW=copper+gasket#573837
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/new-head-gasket_topic55235_post572682.html?KW=copper+gasket#572682
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/head-gasket-replacement_topic54976_page2.html?KW=copper+gasket

You'll probably pick up on the suggestion to ensure flat alignment for the head and decking.  But the sleeve and crack on yours is a different issue.  Mark's suggestion may resolve the sleeve issue.

I did a quick search and noticed a few engine/machine shops in the Billings area (not sure where you are exactly).  But checking out what's around you may be the best option moving forward as maybe opposed to the option of driving the block back to TX or (even worse) an all-expense paid trip for your previous machinist.

[Toms1951]

Thank you for the responses.

Both the head and block were decked.  The head is about .001" in flatness.  A visual inspection of both surfaces were performed visually - more than once prior to assembly.  It's funny, I use Plastigage on the main and rod journals prior to assembly but ignored checking the flatness of the block and head prior to assembly (or even a surface dye pen). It was because surfaces looked so pristine upon receipt.

I know some don't like the copper gaskets at all, which is reinforced by comments in other forums.  My rationale for the copper gasket is that it may be mailable enough to form over the block inconsistencies; especially if I can get a really good evenly distributed clamping force with the head fasteners across the interface to prevent any gapping.  I will retorque once after the first thermal cycle.

Fixing that crack and re-decking the block is the best solution.  I just got the damn thing together though, and it was running so well.  I'm just not wanting to pull the block and all internal components for machining yet.

The small missing chip that creates a small pocket has a bottom to it.  I don't think there is a water space cast under it.

Lastly, it looks to me like this sleeve installation caused the localized failure during installation, which is the crack initiation and propagation, the missing "chip" between 3 and 4, and the .005" under height of the sleeve.  Unfortunately, I missed it. Thus, the lesson learned: Always check level first - even maybe a quick dye pen. 

[Rus Curtis]

If you decide to try the copper gasket, share what the results end up being.

[Toms1951]

Best copper gasket installed.  Ran it on about a 20 minute drive.  Retorque completed next day.  Waiting for -20degF to stop before more driving.  So far it’s held.

[Toms1951]

I'd been using the jeep regularly of the ranch without issue, so I drove to town.  It is about 3 miles at 45 mph.  When I started the engine again at the gas station after filling it up, a huge plume of steam came out.  It was repeatable at the post office and grocery store, so this little experiment failed.  Mark W. is right about (re) decking the block.  The sealing interface between the head and block needs to be perfect or it just won't hold - especially at high power settings.  I think we all probably know this.

Dang man, I was just bragging about how great a jeep is over a side-by-side for work around here. 

[Rus Curtis]

You could always explain that you're spraying for mosquitos. 

[Toms1951]

A mosquito fogger. Yeah, that’s pretty funny considering we live on the Milk River in Montana that is noted for its huge mosquito populations except in winter when it is -40 degF.

I’ve spent a few thousand dollars on this L-134 engine re-conditioning having 4 standard sleeves installed, all new valve seats cut in, and mostly new valve train parts installed.  Now that I’ve stripped down to the block for the second time, my theory is that the #4 sleeve had slipped down about down .005 after the first run.  I say this because I know the deck was machined flat at the start.  There are cutter marks across both the deck and all the sleeves (#1 thru #3 are perfect), and no good machinist would leave a sleeve 5 thousandths below a deck height.  Moreover, the #4 sleeve doesn’t bottom out on a step as it should and was bored through.  This is from a repair during prior ownership.

I’ve included a photo showing cylinder #3 and #4 juxtaposed to show #4 position was bored through at one time for the prior sleeve installation.  Note how the sleeve bottom is exposed.

The engine is jinxed.  I can only think the #4 sleeve will have to be pinned somehow or have some dowel through the sleeve to hold it in place.  I can’t shave the block any more than it has been, which probably means another new sleeve and any required crack repair.

My jeep is really nice.  It is all stock, unadulterated, and a rust-free original vehicle.  I really wanted the L-134, but now I’m contemplating engine swap and have been reading quite a bit on it.  Either the Kubota V2203 or Ford Ranger OHC I4 with Novak the adapter.  I think that it would be far less frustrating, especially trying to repair this one, find a replacement block somewhere, or buy a new block from a vendor.

[Rus Curtis]

A mosquito fogger. Yeah, that’s pretty funny considering we live on the Milk River in Montana that is noted for its huge mosquito populations except in winter when it is -40 degF.

I’ve spent a few thousand dollars on this L-134 engine re-conditioning having 4 standard sleeves installed, all new valve seats cut in, and mostly new valve train parts installed.  Now that I’ve stripped down to the block for the second time, my theory is that the #4 sleeve had slipped down about down .005 after the first run.  I say this because I know the deck was machined flat at the start.  There are cutter marks across both the deck and all the sleeves (#1 thru #3 are perfect), and no good machinist would leave a sleeve 5 thousandths below a deck height.  Moreover, the #4 sleeve doesn’t bottom out on a step as it should and was bored through.  This is from a repair during prior ownership.

I’ve included a photo showing cylinder #3 and #4 juxtaposed to show #4 position was bored through at one time for the prior sleeve installation.  Note how the sleeve bottom is exposed.

The engine is jinxed.  I can only think the #4 sleeve will have to be pinned somehow or have some dowel through the sleeve to hold it in place.  I can’t shave the block any more than it has been, which probably means another new sleeve and any required crack repair.

My jeep is really nice.  It is all stock, unadulterated, and a rust-free original vehicle.  I really wanted the L-134, but now I’m contemplating engine swap and have been reading quite a bit on it.  Either the Kubota V2203 or Ford Ranger OHC I4 with Novak the adapter.  I think that it would be far less frustrating, especially trying to repair this one, find a replacement block somewhere, or buy a new block from a vendor.

A slipping sleeve?  Doesn't sound good.  Is it a block problem or a PO's rough usage?  Hard to say what direction would be best.  I feel your pain. 

The path you end up on may have a little bit to do with what you have access to.  A perfect donor engine across the country won't help much.

I will add this:  There are several members on the 2A forum that have extra engines. 

[Toms1951]

Thanks Russ.  I’m not a member of that forum, but I sure do read it a lot.  The #4 sleeve just isn’t constrained it the down direction.  I see it being the only reason that it moved down.

I suppose I should see about registering on the other site.