Title issue

[farm1810]

Hello all.  My latest adventure.
I have been collecting parts for this latest project since the early 2000's.  In the early 2000's I purchased a CJ2A chassis from a man in New Jersey.  The good part of this was that it had a valid NJ title. A few years went by and I finally pulled the rears, springs, etc. off of the frame, blasted most of the rust off and painted the frame.  At that point I wanted to be sure that title would be okay with the Delaware DMV (where I live).  So I loaded the frame into the back of my truck and took it to the DMV inspection station near me where I had the serial number / title reviewed by the Delaware State Police Auto Theft Unit.  All was fine and they gave me a document stating so, however there was a note on that document stating that this was not a complete vehicle at the time of the serial number review.  This was in 2008.  Years go by and life happens.  I rebuild rears, purchase a trans / transfer case and rebuild those, add 11" brakes, purchase an engine, rebuild that and install, and so forth.  About a year ago I purchased an MD Juan body (I had already purchased fenders, grill, hood, windshield frame, used, but needed a body tub).  FINALLY, last Tuesday, Oct 25 I gather my documents, have my insurance into, and go to the Delaware DMV for the required inspection.  All went fine, brakes, lights, horn, etc. all function as they should, now just to get my title and tags.  I go the counter and I am told that the serial number must again be reviewed by the Auto Theft Unit as it is now a complete vehicle and my 2008 document states that is only a frame at that point.  The AFU will be present on site that Thursday, October 27.  I return on the 27th and again the AFU gives me a clean bill of health on the serial number and an okay on the body (I had the invoice for the body tub to show them) and again went to the counter to get my title and tags.  Next I am told that there is some "police matter" in the computer system from 1977 in Kentucky.  I have documents that show the man in NJ has owned this since 1978, but nothing prior to that time.  Delaware DMV takes my cell phone number and says they will try to reach Kentucky DMV to resolve this.  But until then, they will not issue a title.  After I am at home I choose to call Kentucky DMV myself.  The first person said they didn't know how to deal with my issue and put me on hold.  The second person disconnected me.  I called back.  Got another person who said they could not help me.  They transferred me to another person who listened then said that if this was a "police matter" it is up to Kentucky State Police to resolve.  I called the Kentucky State Police non-emergency number on 4 occasions and got a busy signal all 4 times.  So I used their on-line contact form and wrote about my situation asking for help.  I then wrote a similar document and posted to the Kentucky DMV on-line form, then went to the Delaware State Police site and asked if they could help coordinate.  I received an automated reply from the Delaware State Police acknowledging receipt of my inquiry.  No one from Kentucky has replied in any way even just to say they received my inquiry.  What have you guys done to navigate this sort of thing?  I am sure I am not the first one to encounter this.  Thanks.  R.

[Rus Curtis]

Wow!  I smell a novel being born.

I've made a few calls to ask questions to my state DMV.  So far, no red flags.  I wonder why they couldn't identify the KY issue the first time.  If this were me, I'd also wonder what that out of state "issue" is.  Was the vehicle used in a bank robbery as a getaway vehicle (low-speed chase)?  Was it reported as stolen?  Outstanding tickets?  etc.

Keep at it.  Keep politely asking your DMV for updates (they did say they'd try to resolve it).  Do you have any other antique vehicle clubs nearby that could offer advice or drop names of sympathetic DMV employees that help?

[farm1810]

I called Delaware DMV yesterday for an update.  After being on the phone (most of the time on hold) it was suggested that I use their on-line chat function to get a quicker answer.  So I tried that.  I got an answer in a matter of a few minutes.  The answer was, we do not have an answer to your question you will need to call customer service at DMV.  So, back on hold again.  I finally spoke to a person, explained my situation and she put me on hold.  She came back on and gave me the name of a DMV supervisor assigned to this issue.  I asked to speak to him and I was told that I had to go to the DMV office and show my ID as additional information would not be given over the phone.  I went back to DMV (about 30 minutes drive from me), got a number and waited.  My number was called, I gave the name of the supervisor and I was told that he was on break and I should go back to my seat.  After about 10 minutes I was called forward and a clerk asked about my issue.  I went through the various documents, she took them and asked me to wait.  A few minutes later she said she had spoken to the supervisor and that he is awaiting a return call from Kentucky DMV.  I asked if she could tell me the specific issue and she said it was reported stolen in Kentucky in 1977.  I returned home.  A few hours later I glanced at e-mail and I received a response from someone in Kentucky (I had written to multiple agencies) who stated that she could see no record of my make, model, serial number in the Kentucky DMV record.  She gave me the phone number of the state agency in Kentucky that oversees the Kentucky DMV and suggested I seek action from them.  When I spoke to Kentucky DMV last week they said it was a state police matter.  I contacted Kentucky state police but at this time have not received a response.  Will post an update once I have new information.  FYI, I share this experience in hopes of helping others.  I would think this could be a common issue with some of these old titles.  I am confident this can be fixed, but is taking some additional energy.  Thanks Rus.

[SteveKfl]

What about "Statute of Limitations" for "theft"?  When my boat was stolen, and I found it 7.5 years later, I was told for Florida, "Theft limitation was 7 years", so the THIEF got away FREE and destroyed my boat too during his possession???  And it cost me $250 for FEES to "recover MY boat, legal title in hand still".  Victimized TWICE!!!  Good Luck!!!

[tow hook]

wow, kinda the same in my case. just no bill of sale. i would have spend 1800$ to get it done in pa.( were i live.) had had the sn# run in pa. was never titled in pa. and the state police ran for it being stolen. but opted for the vt route, videos how to do the form are on you tube. plates/ paper work was 90$  tax was another 540$  i wish you luck

[farm1810]

Hopefully the last chapter.  After speak to Kentucky DMV multiple times, a conversation with the manager of the division of motor vehicles in Kentucky, 5 trips to Delaware DMV (they did not want to release information over the phone as they required photo ID to discuss), a conversation with Kentucky State Police, Delaware DMV finally reached someone in Kentucky who helped me.  This was after someone in KY informed me that they had no record of a vehicle with this serial number was ever titled in KY, I was told that there was a utility trailer first titled in 1970 in KY that was reported stolen in 1977 and it carried the same serial number as my Jeep.  Delaware required this to be in writing with signature, so a call back to KY and he was kind enough to get that done (Fax) while I sat in the waiting area of Delaware DMV.  So the next jolt?  I had purchased the chassis with title years ago for $150.  Of course, there is a tax in Delaware when titling a vehicle that is based on the sale price / book value.  I said I paid $150 but it was documented that it was not a complete vehicle at that time.  Their "appraised" value?  $24K.  What?  That meant my title / tags were over $1000.  There is a process to challenge that assessment, but I paid it and called it a day.  What would I do differently?  1.  When the title / serial number was inspected by the Delaware State Police they asked if I wanted a new serial number or to just keep the original.  Thinking I had a clean serial number I asked to keep the original.  If I would have had them assign a new one none of this would have happened.  2.  Before going down this path I could have taken the Jeep to a local dealership and received a written appraisal of value, probably 1/2 the $24K Delaware DMV assigned.  Hope my sharing this experience helps others on this journey of keeping these old beauties on the road (and off road!). 

[SteveKfl]

It's all about "tax revenue" to government, NOT "doing things correctly" or "helping the owner to keep iconic historical vehicles alive and usable"... IMO.  At least you didn't have to "crush it".  Happy motoring to the next chapter of better memories.