Welcome Adventure Van

[Forum Master]

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[Adventure Van]

Hello from Phoenix

I just inherited this rolling chassis/drivetrain from a neighbor.  No title.  It runs and drives.  I plan to fabricate a basic body, get all the mechanical dialed in and use it on the ranch.  Can someone help me identify the year/model of the frame and drivetrain so I can source the correct parts?  I was told that it originally had a flathead in it.  The engine has one motor mount flange facing forward  and one rearward and the frame mount attachment point does not line up on the drivers side with that on the engine.  The engine also has a dual action fuel pump, which i will not need because of lack of vacuum wipers.  Further explanation in attachments.  The frame has equidistant motor mounting points and are not staggered, which makes me believe from what I have read that the frame may be from a CJ2A, earlier? If that is the case, I may be on the wrong forum.  The engine number near the water pump is 53441.  Any help would be appreciated

[Adventure Van]

For some reason, I am unable to post attachments.  I will keep trying.

[Rus Curtis]

Adventure Van,
Welcome!

I had to read twice, "rolling frame, runs and drives."   That may be fun to watch! 

Here is an article on the 3B Page of frame changes.  It may help with the frame.   

https://cj3b.info/Dating/DatingFrames.html

[Adventure Van]

Ok, hopefully photos will post now.

[Adventure Van]

A few more photos.

[Adventure Van]

Rus Curtis, thank you for the frame article.  Based on the fact that I do not have staggered frame mounts, it looks like the frame that I have is a CJ2A, or earlier.   Thoughts anyone?

[Rus Curtis]

I'm now seeing a couple more things.  The rear engine crossmember (under the transmission) looks like the CJ2A style vs. the later 3A/3B style.  I also see two combat rims (bonus!). 

I see an F-head engine.  That will give you fitment challenges under a low hood.  The staggered front plate on the engine really shows up sitting on your frame - no idea how you keep it sitting still with that block of wood.  There is a Willys part that was made to allow fitment.  Part number, 647913.  Everything I've read states it allows an older 2A engine to be mounted onto a later 3A frame. 

https://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips/interesting_parts.htm

https://cj3apage.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4012.0

What I don't know is whether that part could be flipped around to allow a later engine (staggered) to be mounted on an older (non-staggered) frame?  The second link above, athawk11 provides sketches with dimensions.


Your engine number, 53441, is off-center and from what I have read, if out of a CJ-3B, should start with "4J" before the number.   I can speculate (already dangerous) that it is possible the block was decked and the number was added afterwards.   Was it the original number minus the 4J or was it the number from the donor jeeps' Serial Number?  I don't know.  Did that engine have some other original application?

Here's a list of known 3B's and their engines.  That number matches 1959 jeep model serial numbers but I don't see a year group where the engines numbers fall near yours. 

https://cj3b.info/SerialNos/SerialNosEngine.html

Interesting puzzle.

[Adventure Van]

Rus Curtis- Thanks for the reply and information.  So, it looks like what I have is a CJ2A (1945-1949) frame and an F-134 Engine from a CJ3B.  The motor mounts being staggered rules out the frame being a CJ3A, or CJ3B.  You also state that the crossmember is from a CJ2A, though, I'm not sure of the difference.  I do understand that the engine would require a high hood to clear.  The motor mount adapter does not look like it will work in my application, but I have an Idea on how to fabricate one.  Regarding the engine numbers, I agree that the block was probably milled and the numbers were re-stamped.  Is it safe to assume that all (or most) F-134 parts are all the same, regardless of year?  Last question.  What's a combat rim?  The 16" green ones?  Are they valuable?  I have a different set of rims that I plan to use and probably will sell them.  And oh yea the block of wood stays in place while driving it.

[Rus Curtis]

You also state that the crossmember is from a CJ2A, though, I'm not sure of the difference

Again, very little knowledge on the differences but I found some references.

An image of the early crossmember:
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/transmission-crossmember_topic8466.html

A post discussing the changes between early and late:
https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/frame-change-from-2a-to-3a-style_topic7191.html

Here's a comparison to the later style crossmember where you'll notice the ends (that attach to the frame rails) are flatter:

https://cj3a.info/tech/stay.html

One more example from the 3B Page - from the side, showing the flatter attachment of the later style (look through the side step to the frame rail):

Is it safe to assume that all (or most) F-134 parts are all the same, regardless of year?

I would say that's true.  There wasn't much changed on the F-134 that I'm aware of.  I've noted three different valve cover styles but all are interchangeable.  There is a vacuum advance version of the distributor but I believe that was only on either the wagon or truck F-head.  Again, interchangeable.

Last question.  What's a combat rim?  The 16" green ones?  Are they valuable

Yes, the green ones.  Another area I'm not well versed in.  Combat rims are bolted together and are most probably WWII vintage.  I found some information here:

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=307671&p=1849209&hilit=combat+rims+for+sale#p1849209

https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=316333&p=1841130&hilit=combat+rims+for+sale#p1841130