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Author Topic: Father-Son CJ3A project  (Read 4873 times)

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Offline swofford

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Father-Son CJ3A project
« on: February 21, 2021, 07:08:42 PM »
I had attempted to post here earlier about a project that my son is starting for he and I to do.
Just before the massive weather issue over the past week, my son had made a deal for 2 CJ3A(s). One was dropped of just before the cold weather hit. It is supposed to be a 1951 CJ3A, the other is supposed to be a 1953 CJ3A.
Today was the 1st real day we were able to look at the 51. To my surprise, since I had not seen the vehicle before it got dropped off, the engine is a decent and quiet running powerplant. At least a part of a 12V conversion had been done. It has a 12V regulator with a resistor block. The coil is 6V (904?). Still had generator and what looks like an original style starter.  We are trying to determine what it really is through.
The vehicle looks to have an offset rear diff and a front diff. (but we need to figure out if it is a true Dana 44/25 setup or something else).  Spicer transfer case, T90 transmission, etc...
And now is where things gets strange for us. If we look at the body of the vehicle, it doesn't appear to be a CJ3A... but more a DJ3A Dispatcher. The problem with that is, they were kin to the 3B... and weren't produced until 1955 or so...

I am trying to figure out if this is a CJ-3A that somehow ended up with a DJ-3A body/tub or is not a 3A at all...
I went looking for a plate or imprint on the frame or engine to tell me, but nothing was apparent. There is a casting on the top of the engine, which I have to do a paper etching to see if I can read it better and go looking, but then that may or may not really prove anything.

To compound the difficulty of identifying... I am wondering why the hood would have Willys imprints on each side... but the tailgate has nothing...

Any initial guidance on where I need to look for serial numbers or other information that could help us figure out what this thing is?
Thanks
Larry Swofford

Offline oldtime

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2021, 08:26:28 PM »
Welcome to the forum Larry.
The DJ’s did not have tailgates.
And parts wise resemble both 3A and 3B with a few unique features all their own.
If you are able to upload pics that should simplify identification for most components and assemblies.
Many old become an admixture of Willys models and vintages over time.
Having No tailgate stamping suggests it to be aftermarket or military.
A true 1951 frame normally had no identification stamping.
This is a single wall non laminated frame ?

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2021, 08:46:26 PM »
trying to post photos again... maybe the total size was too large.

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2021, 08:48:11 PM »
Photo 2

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2021, 08:49:56 PM »
photo 3

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2021, 08:51:18 PM »
photo 5

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2021, 08:52:48 PM »
photo 6

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2021, 08:54:15 PM »
photo 4

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2021, 08:55:29 PM »
photo 7

Offline oldtime

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2021, 09:02:42 PM »
Pics are too blurry for precise detail but from what I can tell it certainly appears to be a normal cj3a with only a few relatively minor deviations from original condition.

Offline Rus Curtis

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2021, 11:48:24 PM »
I haven't seen enough 3A's to pick one [out] that's been cleverly disguised but I did notice the instrument cluster (I don't [know] the actual diameter of a cluster gauge) and the cut-out for the transfer case shifters (is it square and rough?).  Also that hole above the passenger tail light could have been home to a gas filler neck at some point. 

Researching this ought to be fun!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 01:00:04 PM by Rus Curtis »
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C

Offline swofford

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2021, 09:45:02 AM »
Rus and Oldtime...
Thanks for the responses...
Oldtime - from a brochure for DJ-3As on CJ3B.info, it appears that some DJ-3A could have had a tailgate and some did not...
Rus - you noticed the 'instrument' cluster, just as we did... It only had one large cutout, which would have been for the speedometer that might have also had a gauge or two in it... on this one, someone, sometime, put in a 4 gauge cluster set...and there is no speedometer at all... which is suspect in my mind.  The dash also didn't come with all the usual cutouts...
Also, it does appear that there was a hack job done on the tunnel, which could be another indication that the body is non-standard.
In reading some of the information on the CJ3B.info page, the DJ-3A came 2 wheel drive mainly, but some got modified to be 4 wheel later (probably by owners?). According to the article, DJ's originally came with a Spicer 23 rear end and updated later to a Spicer 27.... but these are all centered 'pumpkins'... and our is offset...plus it has the front differential and xfer case... I need to clean up the diff(s) and see if there are any markings on them to tell us if they are Dana44 back/Dana25 front or what....

This is going to take some time and a lot of reading investigation to understand what we have....
I really appreciate people taking the time to respond.
Larry

Offline SteveKfl

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2021, 10:09:48 AM »
If I may add my 2 cents in, and I own a Dispatcher, a "DJ Dispatcher" IS with a tailgate, and the Willys stamp is missing due to the "swing down tag light and bracket" was mounted there.  Are there holes there for the bracket?  The Surrey/Gala and Convertible models did not have tailgates.    Another thing, as Rus noticed, the Fuel Filler hole above the Passenger tail light, that would be DJ3A potential, and in order for that to be used as a DJ, there would be no "V" bracket on the rear frame like on CJ3A/Bs, as that was where the fuel tank was.  This body has what appears to be a "side fuel" inlet location, so either might be modifications.  The DJs all had the Speedo cluster like the CJ3A/Bs with fuel and temp gauges.  If originally a DJ, the serial number begins with 5332, and the frame is stamped in front of the passenger tub mount on top of the frame.  A DJ would also been "three on the tree", so the column would have signs of the shifter shaft pivot location potentially.  A DJ tunnel is already cut out for 4WD type setup, just covers over it.  At the moment, those are the most obvious indicators that I can come up with by memory.  The research should be interesting.  Good Luck, and please keep us posted.
My Concept Roadster
62 DJ3A Dispatcher Half Top

Offline SteveKfl

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2021, 11:08:03 AM »
PS... correction, serial number begins with 56337 (poor memory).  Also, There are no pics of your engine yet, but a DJ has a different intake manifold with the carb mount bolts parallel with the firewall, not the engine block, and the throttle linkage comes up between manifold runners from a pivot on the rear valve cover mount.
My Concept Roadster
62 DJ3A Dispatcher Half Top

Offline athawk11

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Re: Father-Son CJ3A project
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2021, 12:33:25 PM »
Thanks for showing us your new project.  It's always fun trying to figure out what we've got.

Along with what has already been spotted...

-There is no passenger side under-seat toolbox. 
-The current fuel inlet looks to have been "repositioned".  Looks like they bolted it to this location.

Because the fuel tank location mod, my initial guess will be that it is a CJ3A rolling chassis and 3A front clip sheet metal...with a DJ3A Dispatcher tub.  As mentioned above, a peek under the hood can give us more hints.

Looks like a fun project!! :) 
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A