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Offline aboyandhisdog

Pre oiling engine
« on: November 09, 2019, 06:20:52 PM »
How do you guys pre oil your engines before start up of a newly rebuilt engine?  I don't have a pre-oiler...is it necessary?  Thank you.

Offline 64CJ5

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2019, 09:10:19 PM »
The rebuild shop loaned me a tank that I put oil in and pressured it with air.  Then I hooked it into the oil pressure gauge port and opened the valve to force the oil into the engine.  When I started the engine the oil pressure came right up.  The F head is still running like a top.

Tom 
The sun never sets on the mighty Jeep.

Offline Rus Curtis

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2019, 10:01:21 PM »
I used the same port but used a large syringe.

'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C

Offline aboyandhisdog

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2019, 10:05:16 PM »
I have a fluid transfer pump and wondered if that would move the oil into all the right places.  It doesn't generate much pressure but it will move oil from a jug in or out of an engine or transmission.  Think it is worth a shot?
Tom


Offline tow hook

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2020, 02:45:36 PM »
did any of you pack the oil pump with vasiline ? i'm in the middle of doing mine now. going to take the pump cover off and fill it, tryed hand cranking, and hit the starter. but no pressure :(

Offline aboyandhisdog

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2020, 02:52:34 PM »
did any of you pack the oil pump with vasiline ? i'm in the middle of doing mine now. going to take the pump cover off and fill it, tryed hand cranking, and hit the starter. but no pressure :(

Man, I never heard of anything like that.  What would be the point...wouldn't the vaseline inhibit the flow of oil quickly which is what we want? 
Tom


Offline 64CJ5

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2020, 05:38:51 PM »
Tom,  After an oil change in the '47 2A that I had in high school the pump would not suck oil from the pan so no oil pressure.  The Jeep did not have an oil filter.  I would pack the pump with grease and get oil pressure quickly.   I know now that grease was not the best thing to use.  Vaseline or something like it would also get the oil flowing quickly and brake down with the engine heat or at least flow better than grease.

I never pulled the pan on that Jeep but can imagine there would be a layer of grease on the bottom.

Tom 
The sun never sets on the mighty Jeep.

Offline aboyandhisdog

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2020, 07:20:33 PM »
Thanks, Tom.  I hadn't planned on learning anything today...you kind of threw a wrench into my plans!
Tom


Offline mbullism

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Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 09:07:56 AM »
Man, I never heard of anything like that.  What would be the point...wouldn't the Vaseline inhibit the flow of oil quickly which is what we want?
without something more viscous than air in the pump, the gears just spin...the pump is not self priming.  The Vaseline is thick enough to allow the pump to "suck", provides a minimum of lubrication, and melts at very low temps so it does it's job, melts, and gets out of the way.  Think of it as assembly lube.  Grease is not recommended since at start up temps it can block small passage ways and take time to clear waiting for operating temps (and even then maybe not).

I've used the Vaseline  and the syringe methods both with success, fwiw.

Offline tow hook

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 02:06:41 PM »
Man, I never heard of anything like that.  What would be the point...wouldn't the Vaseline inhibit the flow of oil quickly which is what we want?
without something more viscous than air in the pump, the gears just spin...the pump is not self priming.  The Vaseline is thick enough to allow the pump to "suck", provides a minimum of lubrication, and melts at very low temps so it does it's job, melts, and gets out of the way.  Think of it as assembly lube.  Grease is not recommended since at start up temps it can block small passage ways and take time to clear waiting for operating temps (and even then maybe not).

I've used the Vaseline  and the syringe methods both with success, fwiw.

i installed a new oil gauge on the engine this week.  i hit to the key to the starter quick and had 0 psi. fuel pump should be here today. i'll have to open up the pump and fill it, and try again. got syringes at tsc pretty cheap, the parts stores wanted 30-45 $ there not the same but for a one time use it will work.


Offline tow hook

help
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2020, 02:25:30 PM »
I packed the pump with vasoline, got a hand pump oil can, and used it to put in over a quart in to the side gallery were the oil psi sender goes, pulled the plugs. hit the key, starter turned for a min, no psi. repeated these steps. 4 times.  pulled the valve cover no oil up top.




when I prime the pump, should it  be in or out of the block?




what did I miss ?? I have 2 quarts of oil threw the side gallery, and cranked it 5 or 6 times. no psi, no oil on top. could there be some sort of other issue ?

Offline Rus Curtis

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2020, 03:12:00 PM »
You could pull the cap off the distributor to verify the rotor is spinning.  This means the oil pump is spinning (to eliminate one possible problem).

Quote from: tow hook
when I prime the pump, should it  be in or out of the block?
what did I miss ?? I have 2 quarts of oil threw the side gallery, and cranked it 5 or 6 times. no psi, no oil on top. could there be some sort of other issue ?

Packing a pump is done off the engine, but when you prime by squirting oil in the gallery, that's with the pump installed - ready to spin (I don't know if you'd need to do both since each should accomplish the same thing).   When you get your oil changed the pump is already primed with a residual amount of oil that didn't drain out with the oil change.

The only way a pump can draw oil up out of the pan is if the float is submerged and its connection to the bottom of the block sealed.  You stated 2 qts through the side port.  If you were ready to crank that should mean you have 6 qts total in the engine?  If there's no oil in the pan, you'd get a burp of pressure and then go back to zero when the pump pushed that small amount out into the gallery.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 03:16:24 PM by Rus Curtis »
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C

Offline tow hook

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2020, 11:14:14 AM »
i pulled the dist cap, as i cranked with the key, the dist never moved ( i cryed a tad ) pulled the pump and 3 teeth were missing. then i just sat down for a bit. engine is apart ( all 3 teeth are accounted for ) old oil pump gear is off, got a used oil pump with a gear. any tips to put it on, seems very tite  started to tap it on didn't feel rite.

i will pre prime the pump in a bucket of oil this time no vaseline :'(

Offline Rus Curtis

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2020, 05:10:36 PM »
Well, I'm "glad" you found the problem.  At least you now know what you're dealing with.

So far, the pump is out, the engine has been cranked several times.

I would personally verify the timing gear marks up front are set and then do the entire pump installation from there. Others may have a better way.
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C

Offline Bruce_W

Re: Pre oiling engine
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2020, 08:38:12 PM »
  Be sure to check the camshaft gear very carefully, oil pumps have been known to lock and tear teeth off of the oil pump drive gear on the camshaft. Is this a new pump? A Melling? They have been notorious for this.   BW
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