How much useable power do these 3A's have?

[Jeff_M]

Ryan M (my son) graciously trailered his Jeep down here yesterday and we spent the day bombing around.� What a blast.� It's unbelievable how well that thing drives.� However, I'm thinking it doesn't have as much power as it should.� My first car was a '68 VW beetle with 52 hp and a 4 speed, and it sure didn't slow down in the hills like this 3A does (which, by virtue of its overdrive, also has a four speed).� �It is pretty comfortable at 50 mph, but when you start up a grade, it slows down fast...downshifting is often needed.� It uses very little if any oil, and doesn't smoke; Ryan says it has pretty good compression, although I don't know the numbers.� It does run very well.� I don't believe the Jeep weighs much more than the VW did.�

The problem is, this is the only 3A I've driven out on the highway; I have none others to compare it to.� Are my expectations too high?

[athawk11]

Jeff,
Good question.� I had similar complaints, but no other Willys to compare to...until the Fall Colors Tour last year.

My Willys was just off a fresh rebuild.� Driving it around the neighborhood, it seemed to run well, but I learned early on to avoid steep hills and long steady inclines.� I just figured this was what a 60 hp engine was going to give me.

Fast forward to the FCT 2013...

Other Willys Jeeps were climbing up my rear end as if I were standing still.� It was a little embarrassing.� I convinced myself that I was running heavier than the other Willys.� After all, I had my wife, two dogs, a cooler full of stuff, tons of tools, and a bunch of jeeps parts, just in case of failure.

It still bothered me though.� When I got home from that trip, I set off to find the real reason for my lack of power.� I axed the Solex carb after rebuilding my Carter.� At the same time, I decided to learn about timing.� I discovered my distributor was at a limit when I went to turn it to dial in the timing.� The PO had it close enough to run good, but not good enough to run great.� I was forced to re-index my oil pump so I could adjust the timing correctly.� That was a pain, but it was worth it.
Also, my timing chain (old GPW L-134) was very sloppy.� I replaced it too.

After dialing in the timing, setting up my Carter carb, and new timing chain, it was time to take it for a spin.� I was shocked over the increase in power.� I went looking for hills and inclines I had avoided before.� No more down shifting required where I often worried I wasn't going to make it up.

Needless to say, I am looking forward to the FCT this year.

Here's the only problem...I'm not sure if the timing adjustments, the timing chain, or the Carter carb were responsible for my power increase.� I did them all at the same time.� It could have been one of these three, or a combination of two or more.� I'm most inclined to believe my timing was the culprit, but I'm not positive.� I may never know, but I really don't need to.� I now have a Willys that has all the power it needs considering the 9" brakes and archaic steering system.

I rambled on...and probably didn't help you at all.

Tim

[Ryan_M]

Very helpful Tim. I'm thinking all three components you mentioned could use attention on my Willys. I have only adjusted the timing by ear and feel - no precise measuring of any sort.

I've never had the timing chain cover off so I'm not sure what's going on under there. I suspect it is gear driven - no chain - but I should probably still take a look.

I have never really disassembled the Carter. It has been removed for cleaning etc but never dissected or rebuilt.

Geez...and I was wondering what I was going to do all winter now that my jeep was "finished".

[johnrb3b]

. . . now that my jeep was "finished".

It's NEVER finished.
 

[macrisel]

I have often wondered the same thing in regards to power.  On my 3a, I rebuilt the motor and the Carter carb and set my timing with a light (several times).  On a flat grade, I can chug along at 45-50 without much trouble.  However, when I start up an incline it does slow down and pull pretty hard to get up it.  While I would love to have an overdrive, I really don't think I would get to use it that much because it is mostly hills where I live.  I have wondered if I have everything dialed in exact enough, at the time I was entralled that it actually worked.  Not long after I rebuilt my carb myself, Carl started a thread on rebuilding his carb and I realized I didn't even come CLOSE to the precision he did.  He was like a surgeon with a scapel....and I was using a butter knife.

In the end, on a stock system we are still dealing with a 60 hp flat head 4 cylinder on a 6 volt system.   Leaving everything completely stock will have some serious limits.

At the Midwest Fall Reunion, I was parked next to another 51 3a that belonged to a mechanic.  While he still had the L134 motor installed, he had did a port and polish on the valves, bored it .020 over, coverted it to 12 volt, relocated the oil filter, installed a paper air cleaner and was running an electronic ignition.  He took me for a ride and let me tell you.....that combo made for a fun little ride!

[Jeff_M]

I drove about forty miles and had my foot in the bucket most of the time, although I usually didn't exceed fifty.� I was told not to downshift the overdrive unless I was stopped, so often I had to wait quite a while before down shifting as I was actually downshiftng two gears.� It would slow to thirty, but never ran hot...faithfully showed 190 degrees even at the crest of a hill.� Seems to me if the timing were off it might begin to overheat especially when lugging...but I'm hardly a mechanic.�

In another, totally unrelated point, I did learn about the "Jeep Wave."

[athawk11]

Hi Ryan,
� My timing marks are on the flywheel hiding behind a little peep hole.� Almost impossible to use a timing light.�

I used Sean's Geico timing method listed at the 2A under the FAQ section.� It makes timing a Willys almost enjoyable.

Unless your engine has been bubba 'd, a fairly quick way to determine if you have a chain drive or gear drive is to look at the timing cover.� Take a look at the photo below.� Check out my timing cover.� See the horizontal rib and the button in the center of the circular raised area?� If your timing cover has this, it is likely a chain drive.� If it does not, its a gear drive.

[Ryan_M]

Thanks for the info Tim. Your post has hopefully reduced future burden on you as it's inevitable I would post a "How the Hell Do I Time my Motor" question. I'll take a closer read through the GEICO method and see if I can make some sense of it. I know my flywheel has been resurfaced so presumably the timing marks are gone. I'm hoping there's a reasonable work-around for that. My timing cover has a vertical rib so probably gear drive.

BTW, have fun on the FCT. I've been checking the 2A thread for new pics and updates roughly every 17 seconds this week.

[1955CJ-5]

The timing marks are on the front/engine side of the flywheel, so they should still be there, visible through that little porthole below the starter. You will need to have #1 close to TDC to find them...

My timing cover also has the vertical rib and it is definitely gear drive..

[athawk11]

Thanks Ryan!

Haines Garage will be here tomorrow.  He and I will head to the Thirsty Dirt on Thursday morning.  My wife will follow on Friday, so HG and I will have one manly man day to tear it up.  Should be a real kick in the pants!!!  Would love to get more of my 3A bretheren out here for future FCT events.  Just think of it...up to a full week of trail rides, Willys Jeeps, and some of the most brilliant Willys minds on the face of the planet...all in one place.  Everyone should make this a bucket list item!! 8-)

Tim 

[calvinhunt]

I would certainly love to make my way over from Utah, but am unable to.  Please post some pics to let the rest of us see what we missed.

[Jesse]

Yes, I would agree with what has been said about really taking the time to dial in the timing and ignition system. Can't say for sure about older engines as mine is a later Supersonic model, but the jeep sure gets out of the hole as fast as you can shift it. Big hills are OK if you shift to what you want first, shifting midway and loosing steam seems to be a tough to recover from. Unrelated to jeeps, but I recently did all new ignition on my '79 toyota 4 cyl. and it gained tons of power and something like 8 mpg. I thought it was just a dog all summer long. Would have done a better setup had I known...

-Jesse

[Ryan_M]

So I headed out to the garage tonight armed with 17 printed pages of GEICO timing literature. As expected, I'm stuck already. I cannot find any timing marks on the flywheel. I went around twice just to make sure. I did find these number though. I think they read "641955". Any idea what they are?

And the bigger question- How can I properly time my Jeep without timing marks? Short of replacing the flywheel with a correctly marked one is there a way around it?

For what it's worth, I had to mess with the distributor to get it running during my rebuild. The #1 plug wire goes approx at the 11 o'clock position on the distributor cap. I didn't notice this when I originally ripped everything apart so I had a hell of a time getting it going as I was trying to hook everything up to factory spec. Presumably the oil pump was installed improperly at some point (prior to me). Carl Walck has a fantastic video on how to troubleshoot and remedy that problem and I was able to get it going within a few minutes after watching it. That was 3200 miles ago.

[1955CJ-5]

Something is odd there as you should be able to see the entire opening in the engine plate, your's appears to be partially covered by the block casting. Just off the top of my head I'd say that your rear engine plate is for a different year engine.

If you can find absolute TDC on #1 , you could mark your flywheel, then turn it back 5 degrees and you would have a starting place...

Others more knowledgeable in trouble shooting this will have answers..

You can see the timing hole in my engine..

[1955CJ-5]

Check out the part number on the Walck ring gear...

http://walcks4wd.com/ring-gear-flywheel-124-tooth.html


Does your front pulley happen to have a TDC notch in it around the perimeter? Mine did....I'm not sure why...