Transmission Fluid = Creeping Death

[Ryan_M]

I know this topic has been beat around quite a bit but I figured I'd bring it up again.

I rebuilt my T-90 transmission about a year ago and I've put just under 200 miles on my recently "completed" jeep since then. I remember researching what type of tranny fluid to use but apparently I didn't listen to what I was reading. I ended up with a CarQuest 80w-90 Gear Oil which is a GL5.

Today, in preparation for installing my overdrive, I drained the fluid for the first time and found it absolutely saturated with brass flakes. Not good. From what I've read this week the reason for the brass flakes is the corrosive ingredients (sulfur) in some GL5 oils.

I bought a 5-gallon pail of NAPA SAE 90 Mineral Gear Oil GL1 that I plan on using to fill it back up. I'll probably drain it again in a week and repeat. Not sure how much permanent damage was done but it's too late now.

Might be a good time for people to confirm what they are using for fluid just in case they are quietly destroying their transmissions too.

Here's some more reading:

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/correct-transmission-fluid_topic19422_page1.html

[Matto]

Thanks for posting that link. I've been planning to change the tranny fluid in my CJ3B which was in there when I bought it. Definately a little nervous as to what might drain out.
Matt

[Macgraham]

After reading all this about different oils I decided to drop the oil in my trans and t case. Not good!!! I was happily going along using the advice of some Valvoline rep. Well he was wrong and so was I to believe him, The oil looked like gold paint. I'll see if I can find some better stuff tomorrow. Hope it's not wrecked.



http://fluforum.italiancarclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=1652

[Ryan_M]

Macgraham - that's exactly what mine looked like. I was kicking myself for not taking a pic to post...but you nailed it. How long have you been using that oil? What's the history of your transmission? Recently rebuilt or unknown?

[Macgraham]

I rebuilt it about a year ago. May have 2or3 hundred miles on it. Everything still works fine but I hope it will be ok. It has probably damaged the thrusts and blocking rings.  I'm hoping not too much.

[Ryan_M]

I rebuilt it about a year ago. May have 2or3 hundred miles on it. Everything still works fine but I hope it will be ok. It has probably damaged the thrusts and blocking rings. �I'm hoping not too much.

So yours is about the same story as mine. At least we caught it when we did. There are undoubtedly countless other transmissions - in jeeps and otherwise - that have been soaking in this corrosive fluid for much longer than 1 year and you don't hear of it being any sort of mass epidemic. Change out the fluid, hope for the best, and keep on rolling.

[Carls_jeep]

I rebuilt my tranny/transfer case about two years ago and searched until I found that Marathon GL4-5 was supposed to not have sulfur in it. Well they lied, it has a very low amount of sulfur and a month or so ago I drained it and it had a very slight brass color. I went and bought a 5 gal pail of 30 wt non detergent Marathon oil which I also use in my tractor gear box. I don't think I have hurt my tranny at all and I have noticed it shifts a little easier now but the summer time will be the real test.

The 30 wt engine oil is about equivalent to the 90 wt mineral oil. I still use the GL4-5 in the front and rear axles.

[1oldracer]

I had the same experience with some CRC straight GL4 oil.  Back of the bottle said it wouldn't hurt yellow metal but they too lied.  It wasn't in there long because I found a thread that talked about the misleading claims that different manufacturers make.  There was a slight amount of brass color, like Carlsjeep, but any is too much.  I'm back to the mineral oil but if I lived farther north I would have to look a little closer because I'm sure the cold weather would have to be taken into consideration.  It got down into the low 40's (BRrrrr) here and I noticed a difference in the shifting.  I just read a post on the new members forum about a member driving his new jeep at -27 in CANADA - THAT SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF A RECORD.

[calvinhunt]

The 30 wt engine oil is about equivalent to the 90 wt mineral oil. I still use the GL4-5 in the front and rear axles.

Carl, I may be the only one needing an education here, but help me understand 30 wt engine oil being about the same viscosity as 90 wt mineral oil.  When we were on this topic last go around a month or two ago I mentioned I would like to use straight mineral (non-detergent uncompounded) aviation engine oil, which comes in 40 and 50 wt.  I was under the impression that viscosity ratings applied equally to all lubricating oils.  

[athawk11]

Ryan,
You may have spotted this one, but here is my most recent experience with metal eating gear oil.

http://cj3apage.com/forum-yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1360175221

[Macgraham]

For a while this morning I thought I was gonna have to invent some potion to go in my gear boxes cause I was unable to find any GL-1. The Walmart website said they had a pail here in stock but I just got the blank stare when I got there.  Then on to CarQuest where they were helpful in finding the part number but couldn't order it even though they handle Valvoline, my turn to give the blank stare. Went to Napa who had told me over the phone that they had no GL-1 and couldn't get it. I gave them the part number which I verified by phoning Valvoline, and the pail should be in tomorrow. The Valvoline part no. 70044 is for a 5 gallon pail of 90wt GL-1. The rep I spoke with was well aware of the problems the GL4 and 5 lubes have caused in some vintage gearboxes.

[Ryan_M]

Macgraham - I ended up with NAPA Part Number: NHF 65205 which is a 5 gallon pail. The 1 gallon jug is NHF 65201.

Tim - I do remember your posts but I didn't realize they were as recent until I re-read them and checked the dates. Seemed like eons ago, not last month. I think I was trying to subconsciously deny having to face my own impending disaster.

[athawk11]

I think I was trying to subconsciously deny having to face my own impending disaster.

Been there.  Eventually, I just had to look.  

Tim

[calvinhunt]

I had the same experience with some CRC straight GL4 oil. �Back of the bottle said it wouldn't hurt yellow metal but they too lied. �It wasn't in there long because I found a thread that talked about the misleading claims that different manufacturers make. �There was a slight amount of brass color, like Carlsjeep, but any is too much. �I'm back to the mineral oil

I've been watching this thread with great interest. �This particular post from 1oldracer caught my interest because, like him, I believed what it said on the back of the bottle.







I called the Technical Service number and spoke with a tech-rep. �He told me that part of their testing and manufacturing process requires the statements on the back of the bottle to be certified. �He assured me that yellow metals are safe in GL-4.
I asked if they make a GL-1 and he said that they do not. �He said that there isn't much call for it because it's only for farm equipment. �I thanked him kindly and didn't come away very "assured". �
I completed my restoration 5 years ago. �I wasn't aware of the yellow metal problem at the time and after the transmission overhaul I put GL-5 in it. �One year later I saw the gear oil looked like matalic gold paint. �I had to go into the tranny for other reasons and by this time, after installing new brass parts, I was aware and in good faith installed GL-4. �Last fall when Carl Darnell was here, we pulled my tranny to install a new pilot bushing. �We didn't drain the oil, but had to pull the top plate and shifter. �At that time we looked for the matalic color in the gear oil but didn't see any. �I'm going to be putting my Jeep back into service soon as the days are getting nice once again. �One of the things I'll do is check the gear oil for metalic contamination. �If there is any at all I will follow so many of you now to the GL-1.
I asked this question last month when Tim got us going on this same issue, "Why are we having to discover this problem by our experience? �Why hasn't someone like Carl Walck been on top of this for some time?

[gmcjr]

The 30 wt engine oil is about equivalent to the 90 wt mineral oil. I still use the GL4-5 in the front and rear axles.

Carl, I may be the only one needing an education here, but help me understand 30 wt engine oil being about the same viscosity as 90 wt mineral oil. �When we were on this topic last go around a month or two ago I mentioned I would like to use straight mineral (non-detergent uncompounded) aviation engine oil, which comes in 40 and 50 wt. �I was under the impression that viscosity ratings applied equally to all lubricating oils. �

Maybe this will help,