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Author Topic: puel pump and distrib. not functioning  (Read 9531 times)

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Offline garage gnome

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2013, 08:16:58 PM »
Quote
According to the manual the "old" style pump before engine #44417 had the pressure relief in the pump cover, and the "new" pump has it in the body of the pump. But my new-this-year pump has the relief valve in the cap/cover, but no drain plug/cover plug as in the old-old pumps..

Perfectly clear...

Why Willys, Why?

Do you mean engine serial #44417 or jeep VIN 44417? I had a 46 2A engine and I believe that had the relief in the housing.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 08:17:19 PM by garage_gnome »
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Nate in Western MA 1953 3A #3268, The Jalopy, '47 2A Wheelin' rig, '49 3A, #37071, unmolested, bone stock named Ted

Offline garage gnome

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2013, 08:20:12 PM »
It was aluminum and had the relief in the housing. This had a serial number before that one you listed Randy.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 08:22:15 PM by garage_gnome »
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Nate in Western MA 1953 3A #3268, The Jalopy, '47 2A Wheelin' rig, '49 3A, #37071, unmolested, bone stock named Ted

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2013, 09:17:17 PM »
I just found the number in the Service Manual in section D-62..they call it an engine #

It looks to me like both older pumps have concentric gears and the newer type have the side-by side gears. someone on the 2a page called the side -by-side geared pump a high capacity pump...

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/oil-pump-rebuild-info-needed_topic28650.html

« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 09:21:12 PM by 1955CJ-5 »
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Offline terryb

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 10:26:05 AM »
according to the pics. garage gnome posted my pump is the new style. not sure when this new style came out because this pump was on the jeep when I got it and it sat in a barn for about 25 yrs. before I got it.
all the pumps ive found on the internet are this new style so my question is,  is there anything that can be done to these new pumps to keep this from happing again?
thanks again willys lovers,
terry
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Offline terryb

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2013, 01:02:13 PM »
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terryb

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2013, 01:26:04 PM »
Nice looking jeep!

How is the oil pump coming along?
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Offline scoutpilot

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2013, 05:39:20 AM »
Around here, like most vintage equipment sites, and given the age of these vehicles as well as the numerous design changes they went through (once or twice in the same day), "New" and "Old" are relative terms
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Offline terryb

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2013, 09:53:56 AM »
well I picked up a new pump on Saturday, I found one at auto zone of all places and they were the least expensive at $94 dollars. I measured the end cap gasket on my old pump and it was .006 in. the new pump measures at .008 in. I plan on pulling the pan off today and checking everything out just to be on the safe side. hate to do it thou because my oil pan is sealed pretty good.
there's no hurry to get it running because its cold as heck here in central Indiana right now, at least I have a warm garage to work in.
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Offline terryb

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2013, 02:40:41 PM »
update on my oil pump.  today I removed the oil pan and found all 3 teeth from the oil pump laying in the bottom of the pan,  that was great news. everything looks good and clean up in the block. pickup screen clean also.  my next job is to install the pan but I need to pick up some more gasket maker.  if anybody out there is looking for a good gasket maker try "the right stuff" gasket maker from napa. made by permatex.  comes I a 7oz. black can.
does anyone know how tight the oil pump cover plate bolts should be tightened? I don't see any torque setting for them. just snug or good n tight???
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Offline Gunslinger

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2013, 02:32:10 PM »
Hey guys, this happened to me as well.  I found that the oil pump gaskets provided in traditional re build kits is not to spec.  It is too thin, consequently when the motor gets warm, the distance between the cover and the pump gear gets too tight, And soon the pump locks up.  Terry if you just crack the bolts on your pump you will find that the pump turns easily.  Then you can replace the gear if you want to., In all cases you should buy NOS gaskets for the pump cover.  Midwest Military has them and they are quite cheap.  FBill can attest to the troubles we've had with pump lock ups and it seems as though it happens on new ones as often as rebuilds, the cover gasket sets the head space on the pump gear, so if it is too tight it will lock up.
Todd
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Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2013, 05:24:29 PM »
Terry,

All this oil pump talk is making me paranoid...

I re-read your thread and from what I understand the engine was rebuilt, with a new oil pump, and you had taken about two-dozen short trips before the failure...

Is that right?

I have about 120 miles on my rebuild, including a new oil pump....

I'm still wondering if I should take some evasive action and dodge the imagined bullet...

I checked the Felpro kit and there appears to be 5 or 6 leftover oil pump gaskets, as we installed a new pump..I just don't know if these are pump cover gaskets or pump-to-block gaskets...

How would you check the end-play on the pump? check the shaft movement with the cover on? Or with a straight edge across the casting with the cover off?

Thanks,

Randy
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 05:24:51 PM by 1955CJ-5 »
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Offline Gunslinger

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2013, 07:28:16 PM »
CJ
Carl is the machinist in the group, and could probably figure this put in a minute or two, but I think it would be difficult to determine the right end play in a completed assembly.� I bought a NOS gasket for my replacement, after the lock up, and I noticed a couple of things.� First it was thicker, and John at Midwest can tell,us the correct dimension, but I also noticed that the material was different between the two gaskets.� The NOS gasket was thicker, stiffer and did not seem to be affected by the oil, while the Felpro was thinner, less resilient and seemed to absorb the oil and become almost mushy.

That said, was I to try to measure them I would try to compress a portion of one between two flat metal rulers, like the 6 inch one in Carl's shirt pocket ;D.

That would compress a large portion of the gasket without deforming it, use a micrometer and you can measure the thickness of the rulers and just subtract to get the material thickness.
Gun
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Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2013, 07:35:49 PM »
The book recommends putting the cover on without the gasket, and insuring that the pump locks up....

it does...

and then put it together with the gasket and insure that it turns freely.....

Seems like there is room for error in that method...

I agree about the gasket. the one in the felpro kit is just a thin pale yellow papery material, while the old gasket is a stiff dark material...

It turns out my old pump is aluminum with the concentric
gears...

« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 07:45:08 PM by 1955CJ-5 »
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Offline F Bill

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2013, 11:54:42 PM »
I'm thinking plastigage could be used for a ballpark check. As could feeler gages and a straightedge.
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Offline terryb

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Re: puel pump and distrib. not functioning
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2013, 12:35:37 PM »
update on oil pump,  pump installed and set the timing yesterday, oil pressure a strong 40 lbs. took the old gal for a ride in the snow covered field. she ran great, just hope there's no trouble with this new pump.  thanks again gentlemen for all the advice and suggestions.
terry b.
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