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Author Topic: Temperature gauge preservation  (Read 11859 times)

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Offline stony

Temperature gauge preservation
« on: July 23, 2013, 01:47:03 AM »
Well this is the first step in my CJ3A preservation project.  Repairing the temperature gauge.  My late brother in law was apparently trying to "fix" my jeep and in what I think was an attempt to remove the engine unscrewed the temperature gauge and twisted off the capillarity tube.  This thread will document my attempt to get it working again.  Plans are fairly simple:  Remove and clean up the brass reservoir, reattach the capillary tube, refill it with ether and reseal it, cross my fingers and hope it is reasonably accurate.  Cosmetically will just repaint the rim around the gauge to keep it from rusting any more.

OK here is what I am starting with.  Fairly decent looking gauge, but the capillary is twisted off at the top of the reservoir, and you can see that it is held solidly in the head fitting by rust.  Going to have to clean out the rust and remove the brass reservoir.   
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.

Offline stony

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 02:15:23 AM »
The first step was to remove the rust holding the reservoir.� A no. 4/0 worm hook did a fairly good job then I found an old cork borer that fit over the brass perfectly.� Ground the bevel off and filed some teeth in the edge and by rotating it back and forth was able to remove all of the rust in direct contact with the brass.� Soaking in penetrating oil and using my vice as a press was able to get the reservoir out.� Only took 2 hours.� Once the reservoir was out it was polished a little and the rest of the rust was removed from the head fitting with a small stone in my Dremel tool.� So here is where we are.� Need to drill out the the old tube, and solder in the capillary tube, should only lose about 1/4 inch.� My original plan was to put a drop of solder on the reservoir and drill through it and the brass to refill, then quickly hit the solder with an iron to seal it, and it looks like that is how it was originally done, so this may work after all.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 02:20:43 AM by stonyloam »
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.

Offline garage gnome

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 06:16:45 AM »
I repaired an original gauge that had broke like that. I made a thread on the 2a page about it. I'll see if I can find it.

Nate in Western MA 1953 3A #3268, The Jalopy, '47 2A Wheelin' rig, '49 3A, #37071, unmolested, bone stock named Ted

Offline garage gnome

Nate in Western MA 1953 3A #3268, The Jalopy, '47 2A Wheelin' rig, '49 3A, #37071, unmolested, bone stock named Ted

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2013, 08:47:23 AM »
Great thread....I too have one that needs repair....
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline stony

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2013, 10:25:24 AM »
Nice work!  I have seen a couple of different threads where the gauge was repaired by grafting the parts from a new gauge onto the old one.  I am taking a slightly different tack with the goal of repairing the original one using all of the original parts.  Next step will be drilling out the remnants of the old tube and reattaching the capillary tube.   
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.

Offline stony

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2013, 01:29:46 PM »
Step by step, problem by problem.� I am pretty certain that I can just insert the capillary tube back into the reservoir and solder it.� However since the flair on the end of the tube is crimped on to the support wire (solidly) not enough of the tube was exposed to do what is needed.� So put it in my vice and gave it a gentle squeeze perpendicularly to the crimp to make it round again.� Worked perfectly and was able to just screw the flair out of the way exposing the tube.� Should be plenty to do the job.� Had it been too short could just cut the wire back a little.� Anyway so far so good ;)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 01:31:41 PM by stonyloam »
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.

Offline garage gnome

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2013, 05:28:21 PM »
I'm curious to see how you will refill it with the correct amount ether and seal it up without it all leaking out.
Nate in Western MA 1953 3A #3268, The Jalopy, '47 2A Wheelin' rig, '49 3A, #37071, unmolested, bone stock named Ted

Offline stony

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2013, 07:40:03 PM »
Yeah me too LOL!� OK, so time to drill it out.� Drilled a hole in a block of wood to hold the brass so I could hold it vertically.� Wanted to set it up so that I could hold it with my fingers so if the bit caught in the soft copper I could let it slip without breaking the bit.� Started with 5/64" and drilled, thought it would go through pretty quickly, figured about 1/4 inch, but was still cutting copper at 3/8 so I stopped, good enough.� Used a piece of 0.024 wire from my welder to make sure the hole was clear all the way through.� �Followed the 5/64 with a 3/32 drill to a depth of about 1/8 inch to try to assure a better solder seal.� �Needed a little more tubing exposed so cut off about 2 1/2 turns of support wire with the Dremel.� �Soldered it.� Doesn't look too bad and flair snugged up to the tube quite nicely.� The next thing was to remove the solder from the other end to see what is there.� Looks like there is a plug in the middle and solder was applied over it after the tube was filled.� �Not exactly sure what i am going to do for a fill hole, but might drill and tap for a small brass machine screw, fill with ether and solder, or maybe just JB Weld.� The amount of ether should not be too critical as long as there is enough so that some stays in the liquid state at 212 F.� Should create about 100 PSI at that temp.  So far so good!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:42:32 PM by stonyloam »
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2013, 08:42:30 PM »
So, let's speculate...

How do you suppose they did it at the factory?

You could heat the bulb, immerse the gauge end of the tube into ether, then immerse the bulb in dry ice or something, to draw the ether in...but I know the gauge end is still attached...

Can you just pour ether? Better wear a gas mask!
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline stony

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2013, 09:16:53 PM »
I do not know, but there is no way to fill it from the gauge end since the gauge would have been assembled before it was filled.  Since the bezel is crimped on there is no way to get inside of the gauge.  It looks like it was filled then a plug was pressed in.  The pressure from pressing in the plug would have given the concave shape to the end.  Once the plug was in looks like solder was added to seal the plug.  I may drill through the plug and if it is thick enough tap it for a 4-40 machine screw, fill and solder.  Need a higher wattage soldering iron though.
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2013, 09:21:43 PM »
I know Nisonger Instrument in NY will rebuild these bulb/capillary gauges. I had one rebuilt for an MG years ago..I should go look at it and see if there is a clue...
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2013, 09:29:39 PM »
So I found it....

Looks like the bottom was plugged and soldered just as you said....
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline garage gnome

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2013, 09:48:05 PM »
I read somewhere that the bulbs were filled in a cold room and there was a bucket of molten solder next to the person so they could quickly dunk it in and seal it? Not sure how true this is though. If I didn't bookmark it, it wasn't important then.
Nate in Western MA 1953 3A #3268, The Jalopy, '47 2A Wheelin' rig, '49 3A, #37071, unmolested, bone stock named Ted

Offline stony

Re: Temperature gauge preservation
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2013, 10:33:50 PM »
I'll bet they just hit it with one of those big old industrial soldering irons, you know the ones with about 1/2 pound of iron on the end.  They will do some serious melting.  I think I can locate one.   When I get the hole drilled will check it out with some compressed air.  Looking at the vapor pressure of diethyl ether about 50# should take it halfway (~180).
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.