Recycling Front Springs

[BMIC]

I think that I can get a few more years out of my front springs. No cracked leafs, the eye's are in shape, and only surface rust.
Should I just wire brush and paint intact or disassemble, clean and paint each leaf? I have read in a previous thread that painting individule leafs is a waste if time because of constant friction wear. Makes sense....

[johnrb3b]

In all honesty, painting is mostly cosmetic. Your level of rust would require some SERIOUS wire brush work.
The thing I've heard that is more useful is injecting lubricant between the leaves. Some use WD-40, some use grease, some use oil. Whatever turns your crank.

New springs come with wax between the leaves. No idea how long that lasts.

They'll break from fatigue before they rust away.

[rocketeer]

Looks like at least one caster/camber wedge (with one broken/missing tang) was installed. If you have both, and plan to reinstall them, make sure they go back the same way they were or it will negatively affect your steering.

Larry

[Carls_jeep]

Personally, from my experience on the Utah trails last month I suggest you replace all four spring assemblies with new or re-arched springs. The extra ground clearance will be nice and the Jeep is just a Buckboard wagon with an engine so forget about a soft ride. The team of horses or mules pulling my Jeep when it was stuck was my trusty winch and every Jeep going in the boonies needs a winch.

It's a Damn Farm Jeep, live with it or sell it.  

 Many people buy a CJ2A or CJ3A and expect it to be like a late model Jeep. They go to extremes to make it "comfortable" like a modern Jeep but the truth is, it's a rough and tumble civilian version of the Military Jeep used in WWII.  

[F Bill]

If you want to save those springs you will need to dismantle them into individual leaves.there is way too much rust to remove otherwise. Check with the Model A or hot rod suppliers for slip strips to put between the leaves for lubrication purposes....or just clean and paint with some grease between the leaves for now.(Grease is not that good a solution as it will also trap dirtand grit) I have a feeling your main leaves may be bent or weak, and if you have a good spring shop near you you may just want to bring the springs in and have them rebuilt with a new main leaf... Check the eyes for wear, make sure your shackles can fit well and can screw in properly. Those springs can be rearched, but again, until you take them apart and assess the rusting, you won't really know if they are worth the effort or not. Rearching is a semi permanent solution and on older and fatigued springs may not last long..........but all depends on your budget and intentions for originality.

If you do decide to break them down and rebuild them you will need new center bolts, long ones that you will cut the extra off once they are reassembled.

Comanche County once mentioned he was shown how to rearch springs with a hammer but he seems to be on a hiatus from us here,...Maybe someone else knows how??

[BMIC]

Look's like the consensus is to spring for a new set of springs. The project is coming along to well to do less at this point. With new everything on the rear axle and brakes I guess it only makes sense to finish the front suspension properly.
 Larry can you elaborate a bit more on "caster/camber wedge" and related steering issues.
Bill, the budget and intentions have grown in equal proportion.
Carl, I live in Maine where traveling I-95 is a buckboard experience. (thanks for the Utah pictures)
And lastly one more time, is it long brake pads to the front and short to the rear?

PS...CC check in!

[rocketeer]

This looks like a caster wedge and I was asking if the other side also had one since there appears to be the outline of one. Find the broken piece if you can. They were designed to tilt the front differential just a tad to improve steering ease.

http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=196754

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/what-are-these-and-what-is-their-function_topic21166.html





Larry

[Carls_jeep]

I believe it's short shoe to the front but with shoes that have a fixed pivot point at the bottom I don't see where it makes a lot of difference. On self adjusting brakes they are not fixed at the bottom and it does make a difference. I have always felt if you had long shoes front and rear it would give better stopping power.

[rocketeer]

I believe it's short shoe to the front but with shoes that have a fixed pivot point at the bottom I don't see where it makes a lot of difference. On self adjusting brakes they are not fixed at the bottom and it does make a difference. I have always felt if you had long shoes front and rear it would give better stopping power.

It's the long shoe to the front, and there is a reason for it. You can search on this forum and also the CJ2A forum for discussions as to why.

Larry

[BMIC]

I finished installing the new front springs and front axle this weekend and since the springs were new I did not use a camber wedge on either side. Before I go further I wanted to explore this camber wedge issue. Is a camber wedge used to adjust steering? Is it used to adjust the drive shaft angle?  If yes to either question then what determines the amount of wedge?

[Quebec Jeep]

I heard that we can put a kind of "dry lubricant" made with graphite.
Anyone heard about that?

Look like a dry fine powder. The graphite should "fill" any harshness. And it should'nt catch up any dust since it's not oil based.

[duffer]

I finished installing the new front springs and front axle this weekend and since the springs were new I did not use a camber wedge on either side. Before I go further I wanted to explore this camber wedge issue. Is a camber wedge used to adjust steering? Is it used to adjust the drive shaft angle? �If yes to either question then what determines the amount of wedge?

The wedges can be used for either driveshaft angle or caster adjustment but it is usually the latter.  Get ting the caster right usually has adverse effects on the driveshaft angle with lift springs and there is no good solution with a closed knuckle axle.  Best to get the caster set right.  With an open knuckle axle you can grind the weld off the "C's" and reweld at the proper angle to get optimum results for both driveshaft angle and caster.

If you are going to use wedges, make sure to get steel ones with a center hole rather than a slot.  The aluminum wedges have a VERY short life span if you do any significant off roading and the results of them breaking and falling out on the trail are not usually too good.  Steel ones were being made and sold by "McRuff" over on Early CJ5 and are likely still available even though he doesn't log on there anymore.  I milled my own out of steel bar stock several decades back and welded them to the axle pads and have never had to mess with them again.  Realize that if you change springs, you will likely need to change the angle and in my case, I will need to grind those off.

As to leaf lube, WD 40 is water soluble and will need reapplied every time you wheel, and as noted above, grease WILL collect dirt and likely do more harm than good.  The only good solution to spring lube is the poly inserts between the leaves which a lot of aftermarket springs now have.

[BMIC]

Thanks Duffer, Let me start a reply by saying that given a normal spec set up for a 1950 CJ3A do I even need castor/camber wedges? Rocketeer had pointed out on my first October post that if I were to reuse the old springs to make sure I replace the broken wedges. I decided to go to a new spring setup and did not use wedges. I can see that there is a steep drive shaft angle and that wedging the axle would give it a more workable angle but once the axle is under a live load I believe that will be a non issue. How many on this forum have used wedges at all? What is the criteria for using castor/camber wedges? Duffer you must have known exactly what wedge you needed to have welded them directly to the axle shoe. I would think that if a needed adjustment can be determined then a "slotted" wedge would allow you the nessessary adjustment.

[johnrb3b]

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys, but my understanding is that the front axles were jigged up to weld the spring perches at the corrct angle to give the designed castor to the front wheels - very little. Thus, no wedges. I don't think you'll find castor wedges on any unmolested old Willys.

A stock CJ from that era doesn't return the steering wheel to center like a modern car where you can let the wheel spin back to almost center. And my '57 Wagon REALLY needs help spinning the wheel back to center. I'm going to put a suicide knob on it. There was a reason they were popluar back in the 50s.

The cases where guys have altered castor with wedges are usually going to larger tires and other mods that tend to dictate more castor to help steering with the bigger tires.

Unless you're going to big tires, I'd leave the wedges out. Well, unless the axle has been modified. Then all bets are off.

As far as drive shaft angle, I believe you're right in that once you've got everything back together, the weight of the vehicle will bring the shaft angle to where it should be. If not, then something else has been altered on the frame or axle.

By the way, that sure if pretty looking, all cleaned up and painted. Mine should lool so nice some day. Dream on.  

[Comanche_County]

If you want to save those springs you will need to dismantle them into individual leaves.there is way too much rust to remove otherwise. Check with the Model A or hot rod suppliers for slip strips to put between the leaves for lubrication purposes....or just clean and paint with some grease between the leaves for now.(Grease is not that good a solution as it will also trap dirtand grit) I have a feeling your main leaves may be bent or weak, and if you have a good spring shop near you you may just want to bring the springs in and have them rebuilt with a new main leaf... Check the eyes for wear, make sure your shackles can fit well and can screw in properly. Those springs can be rearched, but again, until you take them apart and assess the rusting, you won't really know if they are worth the effort or not. Rearching is a semi permanent solution and on older and fatigued springs may not last long..........but all depends on your budget and intentions for originality.

If you do decide to break them down and rebuild them you will need new center bolts, long ones that you will cut the extra off once they are reassembled.

Comanche County once mentioned he was shown how to rearch springs with a hammer but he seems to be on a hiatus from us here,...Maybe someone else knows how??

Sorry guys, since my move to GA, life has been throwing me a lot of curveballs and I've been neglecting my 3A duties.  Looks like the springs are all done now, but FWIW the original posted pictures didn't look bad at all providing there weren't any cracks.  Its easy to re-arch the springs on an anvil.  It does take a bit of sweat with a 4lb hammer though.  Just lay the spring on the anvil with the arch facing up.  Then cover it with hammer hits from the center working outward.  Soon you'll see the leaf start to arch more.  Its not an exact science but after doing a few leafs, you'll get the hang of it.  Its a lost art, the guy who taught me was 90 years old.  This method works great with the older and thinner CJ springs.  Newer and thick Jeep packs that are 3-4 leafs would be much harder to do and I wouldn't recommend doing those by hand.  But older 8,10,13 leaf packs of older CJs are pretty easy to do.