9" Brakes

[BMIC]

Reading FBil's first look post and Johnrb3b's reply in another section of the forum is making me a bit nervious. Obviously 9" brakes do not have the stopping ability of 11" brakes, but are they that bad? Unsafe?
Rocketeer made a convincing case in another thread for a duel master cylinder but is it wasted time and money rebuildinng the 9" brake system? My last Willy's was over 30 years ago but I don't remember braking being an issue. Thoughts on this....

[johnrb3b]

Reading FBil's first look post and Johnrb3b's reply in another section of the forum is making me a bit nervious. Obviously 9" brakes do not have the stopping ability of 11" brakes, but are they that bad? Unsafe?

Nope, not unsafe for the vehicle as designed. With a sane top speed of 45 mph the brakes are adequate. If you repower or even add overdrive, you can drive faster than the brakes are good for. I can go over 60m mph in my 3B but SHOULD NOT. With stock brakes and steering, you should stay within the Jeeps 1940s design envelope. Is your picture of a right side (passenger) brake assembly? If so, you're good. If it's driver side then the shoes are backwards. Long shoe faces front. That makes a BIG difference in stopping power.

Rocketeer made a convincing case in another thread for a duel master cylinder but is it wasted time and money rebuildinng the 9" brake system? My last Willy's was over 30 years ago but I don't remember braking being an issue. Thoughts on this...

Yes, dual circuit brakes are a good safety feature. If you blow out a wheel cylinder or a flex hose to a front wheel, you'll have no brakes. I've had that happen twice in 50 years of driving over 2 dozen vehicles. In both cases I was able to coast safely to a stop. Both were OLD vehicles with LOTS of miles and rust on them. One blew a metal brake line, the other a flex hose. If you redo your brake lines, hoses, wheel cylinders, etc. then the odds of something rusting out or breaking are nill. So do the dual circuit master cylinder if it'll make you feel safer. Most old Willys never get one and I have yet to hear a�story of lost brakes on any of the forums I frequent - 2A, 3A, 3B and Old Willys.

What's almost universal is that all project Jeeps come with NO brakes. �:)
Except mine - new brakes on both. Guess I'm just lucky. �;)

[BMIC]

Thanks John, The picture is of rear passenger side, short shoe in back and long in front. I know, not as easy as it sounds....

[athawk11]

BMIC,
I'll throw in an additional thought. �Sounds like it's been a while since you 'felt' a Willys brake system. �It gets down to expectations of how a brake system should feel. �They won't feel like a modern brake system. �In good working condition, the 9" brakes do a fine job of stopping these Jeeps, but it does take "effort" from the driver. �This is normal, but it does take some getting used to.

After driving the Willys for a day, then jumping into my daily driver, I tend to slam on the brakes for the first few miles.

Tim �

PS �The set up in the photo looks great. �

[F Bill]

Pintojeep needs a complete brake job, and I have most of the 11 inch stuff that I have been picking up here and there. Still have to find new drums. I wouldn't be as concerned about getting bigger brakes except the jeep has a more powerful motor and will hopefully see 60 MPH as a daily driver round town once in a while. Also for running the Colorado mountain runs I would hope less effort will be required to keep the binders on while descending some of the steeper hills I might travel there.  

Pintojeep is a modified, never to return to stock jeep. I figured it would be an ideal place to try out the big brakes as I never have had a set of anything but 9 inchers on my running jeeps. I would classify the 9 inchers as barely adequate when in average shape, for highway use. Perfectly set up with all excellent parts, they might be pretty decent, but to us softies who are spoiled by modern brakes, they are still lacking a bit. If you keep your speeds down to 45 or less you might not notice much difference except when someone pulls out in front of you.

   It is all part of the attitude you have to adopt when driving any older car. Plan ahead, be vigilant, and don't outdrive the car.  On a VW forum I am on, the guys are always talking trash about the stock drum brakes, vs installing discs.. My 69 bug had enough stock brake to skid all four tires anytime I desired. I even autocrossed it regularly and never even thought about adding discs, back in '78... All a matter of perspective. These guys nowadays are used to modern 4 wheel discs.. It will be interesting to see how I feel about the stock vw brakes once I get my "new" 69 on the road.

[49willyz]

Off the topic but the finish on those components is outstanding! Good job! And I would agree with the guys, unless it's going to have a heart transplant or overdrive, don't worry about it.

[rocketeer]

The whole trick to getting maximum stopping power out of the stock brakes is to follow the manual exactly on how to properly adjust them, with a feeler guage, and to take your time doing it.

Larry

[Carls_jeep]

When Mac came up to Blanding for trail riding we drove each others Jeep. Mac has 11" brakes on his Jeep and you can slide all the wheels easily when stopping. Even with the 11" brakes as much better than the 9" I don't think I'll be changing mine out.

[johnrb3b]

On a VW forum I am on ... once I get my "new" 69 on the road.

Bill!
You're an old VW guy too?
How many of us are out there?
My signature tells the tale of my checkered, VW past. �;)

And, no, I never felt the drum brakes on my old buses weren't adequate.
But they struggled to go over 55 mph. Hmmm, just like an old CJ.  

[F Bill]

Senior year of high school I drove  my 69 bug to school every day. I had the only VW around with missing fins ont he bottom of the engine from jumping a certain RR crossing frequently. I had several fellow students convinced a VW was a high perfomance car. Good tires were a large part of the equation, by luck I picked up some Michelin XAS radials at the local used tire place and boy did they stick in the corners compared to the bias ply junk it came with.

Sold it and never looked back after a year of college. Until last year.

[BMIC]

Should be another thread but as long as we are talking brakes right. Bill I am class of 69 as well, I could not afford a VW so I settled for a $50 Corvair. It could stop ok but it was hell on fan belts and had no heat. Just when I was graduating and getting ready for a summer of fun the USMC informed me that I had placed second Ping Pong Lottery (if your under 50 you won't have a clue what a ping pong lottery is), That put the "brakes" on the summer of fun.
Restoring a 60's VW Bus would be fun.....

[BMIC]

Correction Bill... You drove a 69 Bug, my mistake your not that old...