First Drive = More Questions

[Ryan_M]

Well I took the Jeep on its first "real" drive today. I had intended to just go a mile up the road to the gas station and back but I was having so much fun I ended up doing a 20 mile round trip. I really wanted to get a solid run in before winter takes hold in case I discovered any significant problems that I'll need to address before next spring. As expected, I have found some problems:

1. I noticed there is coolant sizzling out around the head gasket. I had not seen this during previous short trips around the yard but it was definitely happening today. I also noticed a slight milky residue in the oil so I'm obviously getting water where I shouldn't be. Are these items related? If so, looks like at the very least the head gasket needs to be replaced? Any other suggestions? Although I stripped this Jeep down to the frame I never tore into the motor as it seemed to be running fine at the time. There were plenty of other components that were in obvious need of help so I focused time and money there. I did remove a couple head bolts in order to install an oil filter and bracket. The oil pan was pulled and cleaned and all fluids changed several times but nothing real invasive.

2. Cruising speed seemed most comfortable at about 35mph. Anything above 40mph and it really felt like it was working hard. �I know these old Jeeps are pretty slow but since I have nothing to compare it to I'm not sure exactly what to expect. I pushed it to 45mph for a very short period and the engine started cutting out as if it wasn't getting fuel. I backed it down to 35-40mph and it was fine. Is this related to problem #1 or does the carb need adjustment? Or should I be looking at something else? (athawk11, I know you just rebuilt your carb and noticed an increase in power...what was it like before you did that?)

Even if I do end up having to tear the motor apart I was glad to actually drive around today. Better to find this stuff now and take care of it. The roads here will be salted up before too long so this may have been my last chance of the year. It was also a balmy 40 degrees. The freshly re-cored Harrison did a surprisingly good job of keeping my feet warm, even in a topless Jeep.

Any input here is appreciated.

[athawk11]

Hi Ryan.  Sounds like a nice 'break in' trip.  I'll offer a few thoughts.  If you loosened some head bolts, (I had to also) you may want to re-torque them once you get the engine nice and warm.  I learned this from Rocketeer.

Your head gasket may be okay, but you may be having a little coolant seep into the pistons once everything warms up and expands.  This could have something to do with issue #2, but it might be something different.

I experienced a similar 'cutting out' when hard on the throttle during a long hill climb.  My carb was starving for fuel.  My filter was partially clogged.    This may be your problem.  If your gas tank has been sitting around empty for some time,  it is not new, and the fuel lines weren't replaced, small bits of crud can break loose and  block fuel delivery.  It would be most noticeable when you are on the throttle.

Clearly, there may be other things to consider.  You may just need a slight timing adjustment, or carb adjustment, but if you didn't change these, and the Willys performed well prior to your rebuild, I would look at fuel delivery issues.

I did just rebuild my Carter.  Unfortunately, I don't have a good comparison to offer.  I rebuilt the Carter so I could eliminate my Solex.  For me, the Jeeps performance with the Carter is far better than with the Solex.  I know this doesn't help you.

I am comfortable driving mine at about 40-42MPH.  Any more than this and I feel like I'm mistreating the poor thing.  I have taken it to above 50MPH a few times, but just for short down hill bursts.

Let us know what you find regarding #1 and #2.

Tim














  

[Ryan_M]

Tank is original but has always been in some degree of use (as opposed to sitting empty for years at a time). I didn't do anything other than slosh fuel around in it and dump it out to clean it. There is currently no fuel filter. There is an NOS Carter glass bowl filter sitting in it's shipping box at my office (it arrived Saturday). All fuel lines are brand new. Fuel pump was removed and cleaned. I realize it only takes a speck of debris to screw things up so that still could be a possibility.

I will re-torque the head bolts tonight and report the results.

[Ryan_M]

I just ran the Jeep until warm and set out to re-torque all head bolts to 60 ft/lbs in the order specified in the service manual. Out of the first 14 I torqued, 6 of them need tightening (anywhere from 1/8 to 3/4 turn). Most of them were on the front or passenger side of the motor where the coolant is seeping out, which was encouraging.

The fifteenth and final bolt is where it gets really interesting (or depressing..). That one was not attached to anything. This is one of the bolts I removed in order to install the oil filter bracket. I broke enough bolts elsewhere in the project that I am intimately familiar with that sickening feeling of having one snap but I don't remember it happening here. Tonight I removed the bolt entirely once again. It doesn't appear to be broken but I can't say for sure. I can say with certainty that it doesn't bite anything and just spins freely in the head. There was a small sliver of metal in one of the bolt threads (visible in the pic below about three threads up from the end). Any idea what the heck happened? Pics of the offending bolt in and out of the head:

[CJPilot]

Ryan � �I'm new to L134's, but my engine has a stud in that location. �Maybe the bolt is too short now that an oil filter bracket is installed.

Steve

[Ryan_M]

If I get a longer bolt and just drive it in there do I run the risk of damaging anything if it is too long? Not sure if that hole just bottoms out or if a longer bolt may poke through to somewhere it shouldn't be.

There's coolant spewing out of the hole now since my original post. I had to drain the radiator down to get it to stop. The metal slivers concern me too. When I took the bolt out again it brought this up with it:



Same as before just more if it. Are these the threads from the hole?

[athawk11]

Ryan,

If that is the full length of the bolt, I think it's too short.  That bolt may have 'just' grabbed the block and chewed 'just' the first couple threads on the block. Bolts or studs, when I have seen others pull the head, the length of the studs are substantially longer than 3".  I hope Carl chimes in.  He will know what length is safe.  I will say, if coolant is flowing out of that hole, I bet there is nothing broken off in there.

Tim

[athawk11]

Stick a wire or skinny screw driver down that hole.  Measure how deep it goes before bottoming out.

Tim

[Ryan_M]

A ran a thin diameter file straight down the hole and there were no obstructions, which is a relief. I'm hoping to get a longer bolt with the same threads and hope it bites. I'll wait for more feedback on how long a bolt I can safely use. The hole took the entire file which must be 10" or more.

[athawk11]

I just measured my head.  From where the bolt head would seat, to the bottom of the head, I got a bit under 2 1/4".  

With the head seal, your bolt is only penetrating 1/4" of the block.  Again, assuming the bolt in your photo is not broken off.

Tim

[Ryan_M]

That is more good news. Any thoughts on whether I should replace with a head stud that I need to order or am I safe using a bolt that I can buy locally tomorrow? I'm willing to wait if it is that critical.

[athawk11]

That's really good news.  Those bolts/studs are penetrating the water jacket.  That's why folks usually coat the threads with sealant during rebuilds.  I suspect you would eventually hit bottom, but I don't know when.  

I know what your thinking....probably because I'm thinking the same thing.  How many other head bolts/studs might be short?

Tim

[F Bill]

Ryan � �I'm new to L134's, but my engine has a stud in that location. �Maybe the bolt is too short now that an oil filter bracket is installed.

Steve

I have a feeling you want to use a stud in that location if you can.....and make sure it is as long as possible and grabs as many threads as possible. You may need to pull the head and helicoil that hole if there aren't enough threads to hold your torque.

[athawk11]

Ryan,

From what I've read, the consensus would slip in the stud. Years from now, when you need to replace a head seal, a stud will normally allow you to remove the head without pulling the stud.  Sometimes a bolt may seize, then break off in the block.  That would be a real bummer if all you were going to do is replace the seal

Tim

[Carls_jeep]

Do not use a bolt, I will have to see if I have the length of the studs but you need to use a stud and nut. All the holes in the block deck go into the water jacket and have to be sealed when you put the stud in. You can buy a stud and nut from Walcks and they are exact replacements.