Steering wheel play

[CJJay]

Right now my cj3a sits in the garage with all new steering components from the steering wheel to the last tie rod. When I tur the wheel left and right it has about 15 degrees of movement before the front wheel start to move. I have identified that the frame flexes as you can see the front bumper move. The engine is not in as yet and I wondered if the flexing will stop when I get the weight and support of the engine.

[athawk11]

CJ,

From everything I have read here, the steering needs to have the full weight of the Jeep on the components to get it accurately adjusted. The one exception is the steering box sector shaft adjustment. This should be made with the drag link disconnected from the pitman arm.

Did you replace the sector shaft and bushings?  This is where I had slop.  With the new shaft, My free play went from nearly 4" to just 1/2".  

Tim

[F Bill]

First check actual play at the box......see how much free play you have before the steering arm moves...If you have 15 degrees of play in the actual box it is too much..  Are your springs actually flexing or is the frame twisting as you try to steer?  I'd get someone else to move the steering wheel while you closely examine the front of the jeep and try to find out what is actually causing the free play or flexing..

[CJJay]

I've rebuilt and replaced everything but the shafts from the steering wheel to wheels. When you move the steering wheel the gear box moves emidiatly right up to the pitman arm. as the pitman arm starts moving the frame moves instead of the tie rods at first.  you can see the fram and front bumper move. is it possible that I don't have the srping shackles tight enought. they are all new as well.

[garage gnome]

Look at this: http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/cure-for-worn-steering-boxes_topic22882.html

[athawk11]

CJ,
I'm a bit confused.  Can you list the indivdual pieces and parts you have replaced?  

 It may appear that your pitman arm moves immediately when you turn the steering wheel, but if you haven't done the steering box sector shaft, once the steering is under full load, this may be your slop point.  The other major slop point will be the bell crank.  If there is any up and down movement at the crank, then the bell crank shaft may be warn out.  You almost have to get a helper to turn the wheel slightly back and forth while you are down under, inspecting the individual steering parts.  

Tim  

[rocketeer]

I've rebuilt and replaced everything but the shafts from the steering wheel to wheels. When you move the steering wheel the gear box moves emidiatly right up to the pitman arm. as the pitman arm starts moving the frame moves instead of the tie rods at first. �you can see the fram and front bumper move. is it possible that I don't have the srping shackles tight enought. they are all new as well.

Sorry to sound blunt but none of that makes any sense. What "shafts from the steering wheel to wheels" didn't you replace? There are only two "shafts" in a Willys steering system; the steering shaft from the steering wheel to the steering box, and the sector shaft in the box. From there on it's the draglink (from the pitman to the bellcrank), the bellcrank arm, and the tie rods (with tie rod ends).

What does "the gear box moves emidiatly right up to the pitman arm" mean? Do you mean the steering box itself physically moves? Or does the sector shaft move in and out of the steering box?

Under no circumstances should the frame move unless the spring shackles are worn out or installed incorrectly.

Do you have a manual? None of these types of repairs should be undertaken without one.

Larry

[CJJay]

OK I think that in trying to not be to wordy, I insufficiently detailed my rebuild. I have installed new springs and all associated shackles and hangers. I put new bearings in the top of the steering column and put a rebuild kit in the gear box. I kept the drag link but put in new kits in each end. I put in a new bell crank kit including the shaft. I kept the tie rods but replaced all the tie rod ends. With the steering wheel centered I can move it left or right about 10 to 12 degrees before the front wheels start to move. I had my wife move the steering wheel while I watched and as she starts to move it the pitman arm starts to immediately (spelled correctly this time) as does the draglink and bell crank. As the bell crank moves it flexes the frame a little before tie rods start to move and the wheels start to turn. Hope this is clearer and more grammatically correct.

[athawk11]

CJ,
Okay,
When you say rebuild kit for the steering box, is it the kit that has the 22 new bearings, 2 cups and shims for the worm gear shaft?  Did you also get a new sector shaft kit?  This is the kit that includes 2 new bushings, a seal, and a new shaft with 2 nubs that ride in the worm gear portion of the steering wheel shaft.  (Out side end attaches to the pitman arm)    

If so, then the sector shaft may need to be tightened a bit with the exterior adjustment screw.  

If you didn't replace this portion of the gear box, take it apart and inspect the 2 nubs. This is the wear point. (The Steering shaft at the worm gear can wear also, but less)   Even a 1/16" wear on the nubs can translate into a couple inches of play at the steering wheel.

 Not sure why you will see frame flex.  My cross over tube? (radiator sits on it) had broken where it attaches to the frame.  I had to weld it.  Funny thing, once I squared up the frame and welded that back in, my "jeep lean" to the driver side disappeared.

The only thing I replaced on my steering system was that sector shaft.  And in degrees, 15 turned into 2.  

Tim  

[rocketeer]

I wasn't picking on your grammer, just that cutting & pasteing your typing is easier than my re- typing it all. I would be concerned that the frame is flexing. Can you see rotational movement in the crossmember? Have you checked the welds where the round crossmember joins the frame channels? Take a close look at that and then at the spring perches and hangers, as your wife turns the steering wheel back and forth, looking for exactly what's moving and/or flexing.

Larry

[CJJay]

I was not concerned about anyones grammer issues I just thought I ought to fix it. Going to look at a couple of things this week end and will report back on monday. Funny thing, I got an order in from Walcks yesterday and there was a flyer for the spring loaded adjusting nut in the other reply. at $80 I'll wait to see if I can fix it first.

[CJJay]

worked on the steering issue again by tightening all the shackle bolts and the bell crank as it had some vertical play but still have the play in the steering wheel. Tonight I am goin to take something and secure the bell crank from moving to see if the play is between the bell crank and the steering wheel.

[athawk11]

CJ,

Sector Shaft...did you replace the steering box sector shaft?  I've mentioned it a couple times and you haven't answered.

Tim

[CJJay]

no I used the original but i did put new brass sleeves in. There doesn't seem to be any play in the box it all seem to be at the bell cranki and crossover tube. I strapped the bell crank down with ratchet straps to try to lock it in place but it still flexes. I think I have another bell crank so I am going to try to swap it and if that doesn't work I may try putting the old stuff back in to see if the bell crank piun kit I got was bad.

[athawk11]

Hey CJ,
I hate to beat a dead horse, but the sector shaft nubs that ride in the worm portion of the steering shaft  can have very little wear and cause a loose steering wheel.  I battled on whether or not to replace mine too.  My pitman arm seemed to move immediately.

Once I looked at the nubs I knew it was toast.  New shaft and 80% of my free play was gone.

Still odd that the frame flexes.  Did you ever look at the welds on the round frame tube?  On mine, the exterior weld looked fine (sloppy....but fine)  When I looked on the inside of the frame, the welds were all broken.   My old Willys was used as a parking lot plow for the majority of it's life.  Lot's of things were broken.

Tim