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Offline Ryan_M

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Won't start...grrrrrr
« on: February 20, 2012, 08:43:40 PM »
I know stuff like this is tough to diagnose over the internet but I'm hoping for some fresh ideas here. My Jeep won't start.

The history: It's a running motor recently re-installed after stripping down to the frame. I did fire and run the motor once already so I know it "should" work....but now it's not. Since the last time it ran I did remove the carb, fuel pump, and intake/exhaust manifolds in order to install a new oil filter and a new heat riser. I bolted everything back together the way it was and now it won't start. I also installed new rotor, points, plugs, wires, and distributor cap.

Some misc info:

1. It is a 6V system with a foot start and a key switch with three positions. I'm pretty sure the correct running position of the key is turned all the way to the right. The middle position should be "off" and all the way left should activate just the lights etc? Not sure if this is relevant but the foot starter will turn the motor regardless of key position. I don't know if this is an issue or not.

2. I have spark at the plugs.

3. There is fuel being pumped into the carb. I am not sure what happens to it after that.

4. I am reading just over 6V at the battery. I have checked the ground and connections and believe everything is OK. I've tried a variety of "extra" ground wires just to make sure. The only gauges wired are the FUEL and AMMETER. The coil, voltage regulator, and ignition switch are also connected and I believe those are correct as well. I am using 1GA battery wires.

5. I've tried every combination of choke/throttle/pump-the-gas-first/don't-pump-the-gas-first that I can think of. I will occasionally get a single "pop" like sputter or a random fireball out of the top of the carb but no real firing or consecutive sputters.

6. The tub is off. I am working pretty much with a rolling chassis.

 Not sure what other gremlins to chase. Any input would be appreciated.





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Offline athawk11

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 09:15:21 PM »
You mentioned a new rotor.  Spark plug wires in right position for proper firing order?  Timing?  Points and plugs gapped?  .030 plugs, .020 points?
2-1949 CJ3As
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Offline Ryan_M

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 09:27:49 PM »
Quote
You mentioned a new rotor. �Spark plug wires in right position for proper firing order? �Timing? �Points and plugs gapped? �.030 plugs, .020 points?

Spark plugs are gapped .030 and plug wires are in correct position according to manual. I didn't realize I had to gap the points? I also did NOT check the timing after having removed and reinstalled the distributor. Maybe the oil pump isn't set right and the plug wires need to be moved to compensate.  Good, new ideas to chase down tomorrow.
Current:
'49 CJ3A
'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
Previous:
'46 2A
'51 3A
'52 3A
'52 M38
'54 3B
East Coast Wi

Offline Ryan_M

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 07:45:16 AM »
It appears the distributor cap and plug wires need to be oriented 180 degrees from the factory settings. Plug wire for #1 needs to be at 11 o'clock...not 5 o'clock. I looked back at some of my "pre teardown" pics and noticed the old configuration. I switched the wires and it started right up! The CJ forum works its magic again.
Current:
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'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
Previous:
'46 2A
'51 3A
'52 3A
'52 M38
'54 3B
East Coast Wi

Offline p3ferris

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 07:47:00 AM »
Quote
Quote
You mentioned a new rotor. �Spark plug wires in right position for proper firing order? �Timing? �Points and plugs gapped? �.030 plugs, .020 points?

Spark plugs are gapped .030 and plug wires are in correct position according to manual. I didn't realize I had to gap the points? I also did NOT check the timing after having removed and reinstalled the distributor. Maybe the oil pump isn't set right and the plug wires need to be moved to compensate. �Good, new ideas to chase down tomorrow.


Yes you have to set the points.
My question on top of this is, did you find TDC on #1 cyl. then place your #1 plug wire on the correct place on the dist. according to the rotor.  It looks like you have the wires in the right order counter clockwise as it should be. keep us informed.

Offline Ryan_M

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 05:10:44 PM »
TDC on #1 cyl is about 11 o'clock on the rotor. Not sure why but that's the way it is for now. Starting at 11 o'clock 1-3-4-2 and it runs great. Here's a couple videos of the first ever trial runs today:

http://youtu.be/2SOI1heHVSQ

http://youtu.be/heA9WDsec4Q

Pretty psyched that it didn't burst into flames.


[/quote]

Yes you have to set the points.
My question on top of this is, did you find TDC on #1 cyl. then place your #1 plug wire on the correct place on the dist. according to the rotor. �It looks like you have the wires in the right order counter clockwise as it should be. keep us informed.[/quote]
Current:
'49 CJ3A
'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
Previous:
'46 2A
'51 3A
'52 3A
'52 M38
'54 3B
East Coast Wi

Offline athawk11

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 06:18:20 PM »
That's awesome Ryan.  Nothing like the thrill of the engine starting after a tear down.  Nice vids.  You look pretty excited.  

Keep the vids and photos coming.

Tim
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline p3ferris

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 08:27:54 PM »
Now I am jelious 8-) you have the new 1 slot grill ;) ;D

Offline athawk11

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 08:38:47 PM »
Quote
Now I am jelious 8-) you have the new 1 slot grill ;) ;D

P3,

I laughed out loud. �Jeep people are funny folks.

Tim
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline macrisel

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 08:57:08 PM »
Like Tim said, there is nothing like hearing that engine run for the first time and taking it for a drive!  That feeling never gets old!!

Offline calvinhunt

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 01:05:43 AM »
Ryan,
Thanks for the videos.  Really fun to watch.  Brings back great memories.  I can't believe how so many of us go through the exact same steps.  Seat on the 2 x 4s.  Gauges temporarily mounted.  Temp gas tank.  Even the sounds are the same (of course).  Great sport.  
Calvin
Santa Clara, Utah

Offline Ryan_M

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 06:26:12 AM »
I figure if the body never materializes I can just slap Maine Antique plates on it and still drive downtown for ice cream just like it is. Wouldn't that be a sight....rolling up to a stop light and seeing that rig in the lane next to you. Lots of fun. Maybe I can start the 1 Slot Jeep Club.
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Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 03:41:46 PM »
Hey Ryan nice job, by the sounds of it you have the oil pump in 180 degrees out of phase,  but now that its running that will make no difference at all.  Good job, can't wait to this one when its done.
Todd
Climbs trees, hides in the long grass, hangs out with wet dogs...

Offline Ryan_M

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 05:36:06 PM »
Quote
Hey Ryan nice job, by the sounds of it you have the oil pump in 180 degrees out of phase, �but now that its running that will make no difference at all. �Good job, can't wait to this one when its done.
Todd

I never had the oil pump out so I can blame that on the PO. Walck's has a video blog on this exact issue so I'm thinking it's a fairly common mistake. I'm not going to bother to fix it at this point. It'll give the next owner something to ask about on this forum when he can't get it to start.
Current:
'49 CJ3A
'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
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'46 2A
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Offline 3aJeeper

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Re: Won't start...grrrrrr
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 06:53:39 PM »
Ryan - I think I had the same issue. Had to redo the entire ignition system - new battery, coil, solenoid, etc., along with a new carb and fuel pump. Wired it up according to the specs and nada. Pulled the distributor cap to see where the rotor was when I had it a TDC and it was 180 degrees opposite. Started at that point with the first cylinder, plunged in the rest and fired right up.

Like you I haven't touched the oil pump either, so if that is out too, I chalked it up to PO. If I decide to rebuild the engine, I'll straighten everything out then.

Glad you got things going! Love the videos. Good stuff! :D
1951 CJ3a
F-134 Hurricane engine