Bodywork and Painting help

[VicJ_52CJ3a]

Hello everyone
I'm going to try and paint this windshield frame myself.

I took it to two different body shops, and they both wanted around $400.00 dollars to clean it up, weld up a few small screw holes, and paint it. I just think that is too much especially since I still have the rest of the jeep to go. I am pretty sure that I have the skills to do a halfway decent job, so I am going to tackle it myself.

But I have a few questions. I'm looking for a welder to do the panel patching. I have a friend that's willing to loan me a Flux wire welder, I'm not sure how many amps it is yet, but I'm sure its a small one. Will this work for patching the body tub. I understand that the tub is made using 16 gauge cold rolled steel is that correct? and anyone know about how much the body tub ways?

I have searched the internet for the last few months and found every Willys restoration blog, website, and forum dedicated to jeep restoration that I could find and read them all, some multiple times. So now I'm an expert. �::)Well maybe not, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyways.

[Gunslinger]

I've used the Flux Wire welder on my resto, it worked, I would strongly urge you to practice a lot before you touch the jeep.  Those welders can be a little unpredictable unless you know what your doing,.  Its pretty easy to burn holes through with it then your in deep doo doo.

[Matto]

I have a flux wire welder and it works okay, but it makes a huge amount of weld spatter. I have heard that Lincoln makes the best flux wire for these welders but have not tried it yet. I also have a Miller portable arc welder for larger stuff.

[athawk11]

I have a small Lincoln 125 wire feed welder (20amp). �I used it on my entire restoration. �As Gun suggests, practice, practice, practice. �Every welder will be different, but on sheet metal, lower the amps and slow the wire feed way down. Use the stitch weld technique. �Small short tack welds. �Jump acros the patch. Tack. �Jump back to the other side. �Tack....And so on. �Be patient. �Don't rush it. �If you do, the panel will heat up too much and you will distort it.

On the thicker heavier steel, turn up the amps and speed up the wire a bit. �Penitration is key here. Pay attention to the puddle behind your wire, not the bright light. �You want to keep the speed of your movement just in front of the puddle. �Don't move so slow that the puddle catches you, but don't move so fast that you out run the puddle. �

Again, practice, practice, practice.

On the steel gauge, some areas are 16 gauge, some are 18. �On mine, some were so deteriorated, they may have been down in the 24 gauge range.

Bottom line, the sense of satisfaction you will have by doing the repairs yourself, will make a huge difference in the bond you will develop with your Willys.  Although, sounds like you've had it for some time.  Bond is probably already strong.

Have fun.

Tim

[Carls_jeep]

Yes, practice, practice, practice. Go to a sheet metal shop and get some scrap 16 and 18 gauge cold rolled metal and start welding on them, butt weld them lap weld them, drill holes in them and try welding them up.

To weld a hole up clamp a 1/8" or 3/16" thick sheet of brass behind the hole and weld the hole closed. Then practice grinding the metal flat without burning it. Use a bucket of cold water and a rag to cool the metal while grinding it. If it gets to hot it will warp the whole panel.

When you weld a rusted hole you have to remove the bad metal until you get good solid metal. You can weld as described above or you can cut a patch to lay in the hole on top of the brass sheet and then weld the patch in.

Welding screw holes can be tricky so make a few holes and practice welding them up.

Butt welding a panel into a cut out area is tricky. Weld a 1/2" pass and cool it with a wet rag. Go to the opposite side and do the same and do that four places around the panel. Now start doing it beside each weld and cooling them off until you have finally welded the panel in. You may have to learn how to shrink metal to draw out wrinkles.

Heat will expand the metal and a cool wet rag will shrink the metal. Practice shrinking the wrinkled areas by heating and cooling. It don't take much heat so be careful.

[aboyandhisdog]

Hey Vic, welcome aboard!  You'll probably hear from me the least as pretty much everybody here knows a ton more than I do, but I was intrigued that you have a '52.  As best I know, there aren't many out there.  I think that most of them had a black windshield frame and you might want to consider that when you start to decide on a color.  Bob W. will know the most about this, but I'm pretty sure that if your ser.# is high enough, they all had a black frame.  Just something to stick in the back of your head as you get closer to painting.  Have a great time and be very patient.

[athawk11]

Tom...Dog,
You're selling yourself short. �You've helped me a ton. Time and time again.

Tim

[Macgraham]

Was going to pitch in my 2 cents but ended up getting a lot of good tips myself from you're discussion. I am into a lot of the body work too and have the windshield to do next. Was just going to agree on how important it is to know you're welder completely. I figure about 4 more jeeps and I'll have it figured out. Good luck on you're windshield.

[VicJ_52CJ3a]

Thanks for all the welding advice guy's.

I picked up a older Craftsman 20511 mig/flux wire welder from a friend last nite. I told him this might take a while.
I see right off that I need to buy a new roll of wire because the one in it is all rusty. also probably will need to pickup some new nozzles and tips. Is it nozzles or tips that I will need to replace the most?
The manual talks about anti-stick spray or gel for the nozzle. Is this something that I really will need?
I plan in getting some scrap metal and practice for a while before I do the frame. Something else I need to do Is fire proof the area that I will be welding in before I get started. Sparks �in my garage have not been an issue until now.
Is there anyway for me to tell if the body tub is the original from the factory?

Thanks Vic

[F Bill]

It is the tip that the wire goes thru that need replacing the most. Incorrect feed settings or poor technique causes the wire to weld itself to the tip, and sometimes you can break it free , other times you cannot. Hopefully the welder uses readily available consumables and not Craftsman specific parts that are spendy..

Are you planning on using it with the Mig gas or flux core? Wire diameter will be different and tips will be different.

I have yet to use anti spatter spray, as I am a cheap SOB.  Make that "excessively frugal individual"

As far as telling an original tub.....if you still have the original front floors there is a rectangular depression pressed into the sheet metal neat the diagonal hat channel that was originally used for mounting the early exhaust bracket to....Bob W would know other signs of originality, you might want to start a separate thread topic.

[Gunslinger]

I need to chip in on the wire diameter, thats pretty important to weld quality.  You might want to experiment with that as the wire diameter controls the amperage carried by the wire, and that will affect your weld.  I think its best to use a smaller wire diameter, that way the settings on the welder will be more accurate and effctive; and remember to match your tip diameter to the wire diameter.  

You are going to have so much fun!!!,

MANDATORY SAFETY MOMENT:
Get some good safty equipment as well, full hood, replacement lenses, good gloves and I highly reccomend a fire extinguisher,  please don't ask why.....  

[RandyA]

+1 on that fire extinguisher....good luck with your project.....

[macrisel]

I would recommend you find a local hot rod club or a Jeep club in your area.  These guys will have a bunch of contacts for painters in your area.  Many times, there will be one or two guys that will pitch in and do minor prep and paint work on small parts like this for next to nothing, just return the favor later on.

Depending on what kind of paint you buy, be ready for sticker shock.  If you stick with the original enamel type paint, prices range from "cheap" to "not too bad" for a gallon.  If you go with the glossier base coat/clear coat paint, prices range from "not TOO bad" to "REALLY?!!"

Good luck!  You haven't lived until you burn a hole through 50 year old sheet metal!