Experts needed, all of you

[Gunslinger]

Guys
I've got CJ3A #58778, and I've had a ton of motor trouble.  Tonight I looked at a rebuilt L134, he wants $1200 for it and it runs out nice, no smoke, no rattles.  Here's my problem, the motor is casting number RJ314505, assembly number 914364, the motor tag says its a 2A motor, I'm thinking its a 49.  My 3A is an early one, it has a Dana 41 rear axle and a 2A hood that I believe is original.  

Will this motor be a drop in to my 3A?  My bell housing is original as is everything around it.  Hope to know soon as I have to make a call on buying the motor by Wednesday night.

thanks Team 3A
Todd

[rocketeer]

You may have to change the front engine mounting plate but otherwise it should drop right in. CJ3A's changed the way the driver's side motor mount sits in order to allow more room for the two-stage fuel/vacuum pump.

For that kind of money I would want to see receipts as to exactly what was done in the "overhaul" and who did it.

Larry

[Gunslinger]

Larry,
What concerns you about the price?  Too much or too little?

[rocketeer]

To me $1200 is a lot of money. A correctly rebuilt engine would be in that price range. That's not my concern. My concern would be that I would want to see documentation as to exactly what was done in the rebuilding process, and who did it. I spent almost 25 years as a line mechanic overlapping a total of 50+ years involved with hot rods, racing, and antique vehicles. I have seen "rebuilds" that ran the gammit from a full blown, do everything, rebuild to a quickly installed set of rings and bearings accompanied with new gaskets and a new paint job and not much else and all of them represented as "rebuilt".

For $1200 I would want to see if it was rebored?; were sleeves needed?' valves done?; valve guides?; crank reground?; new wrist pins?; were any pistons replaced and if they were was a full set installed?; if not were they balanced as a set?; was the block boiled and magnafluxed for cracks?; were any found and if so what was done to repair them?; head shaved?; block planed?; all new freeze out plugs?; timing gears replaced?; was the cam blueprinted for wear?; were the lifters replaced? Those are the main things (I probably missed something but it's getting late).

Who did the rebuild? What experience do they have with old engines? Professional or amateur? Any guarantee?

Those would all be things I would want to know about before laying out $1200. This engine may be perfectly fine and worth the money but I would want to be sure.

Larry

[Gunslinger]

I agree, Thats where I thought you were going with it.  As I discussed the motor with him, a couple things became clear, he does not have all of the reciepts, at least he could not show them to me last night.  Also he was the assembler and I have no good information on his ability.  I posted this same query on the 2A page and am getting the same kind of responses.

Thanks to all of you for your input.  It is great to have access to this kind of practicle knowledge and pragmatic analysis.

Todd

[rocketeer]

Todd, what reason did he give you for selling the engine?

Larry

[Gunslinger]

He's a little elderly, retired guy I'd guess about 70, lives in an apartment, his health didn't seem excellent.  The motor is attached to a trailer mounted welding machine.  The garage its in is just about empty, my guess is he needs the money, and he has no need for the welder so he's seperating the welder from the engine.  

There is a guy interested in the welder but it sounds like he has a different engine for it.  Typically these welders have a Wisconsin engine or something like it attached to them.  Additionally the motor has been on CL for about 7 weeks, and my sense was that there has been no other interest.  I have no idea why he would decide to rebuild the motor and re assemble it to the welder if he was planning on selling it anyway.

[Carls_jeep]

I copied this from my post on the CJ2A site.


Also find out if the block was modified for cam bushings where the stock cam runs without bushings. Will you actually get the warranty the present owner has. To be sure contact the people that built the engine.

You may have to dial indicate the bellhousing to the engine to be sure the tranny is centered in the flywheel. If so you will need oversize alignment bolts or you may have to have a machine shop make them.

Personally I suggest you have your engine rebuilt.

My being a machinist and mechanic I naturally don't trust others work unless I know them and their habits real well.

[Jesse]

I dunno, that seems like a lot of money for something without a full paper trail. Who knows who did the machine work on it? Even if you know who did it, Not talking with them personally could be a problem.

Example: We had our 51 Packard straight eight rebuilt at a shop that a friend told us was "The best in town" Fine. We called the builder and he offered to pick up the engine, he had things to drop off in town. Sounds great! So he picked it up and did his thing. BUT when we went to pick it up it was very clear that all the shop dealt with was chevy small blocks for hot rodders. Big surprise when the engine had issues and had to get sent back. Was the shop a bad one? Not really, but they had a non-V8 in their shop one week out of the year. They just didn't know how to do it correctly.


The take home I'm getting at is this; There is a huge difference in knowing the machinist, checking out his place, and going over your plans in detail compared to just knowing who did it. That is a lot of money for a Jeep engine. Face it, complete jeeps can be had for 500 bucks.

-Jesse

[aboyandhisdog]

Todd,  
For a bit of reference, Both Walcks and Kaiser-Willys were selling used 134 L engines for about $1200 including shipping.  These are engines from overseas that were used in generators and compressors.  They were brought in by an outfit in Texas.  Probably most have been rebuilt over the years, but there is no paperwork.  However, both companies say they will stand behind them if there are problems.  Kaiser told me that if even on the bench we found that it wasn't in good shape they would send another.  I wouldn't even have to return it.  Well, it has 105 lbs. in all four cylinders and runs like a champ - very smooth.  No oil leaks at all.   I did put a quart of oil in after 1500 miles.  I don't know if this rate of oil use is good or bad, but it will have to do.  I think Kaiser still has these engines available but don't know for sure.

[athawk11]

I have a 3A with a GPW motor. �The GPW has the same front engine plate as a 2A. �2A engine is likely chain drive. �When I changed my front engine plate to the 3A style, I had this problem to solve. �(See Photos)





The 3A plate is designed for a gear drive L-134. �As I had to, you will likely have to fill this gap in. �I just welded it closed. �There may be a 3A plate designed for a chain drive L-134 motor, but I don't think so.

[rocketeer]

Todd, �
For a bit of reference, Both Walcks and Kaiser-Willys were selling used 134 L engines for about $1200 including shipping. �These are engines from overseas that were used in generators and compressors. �They were brought in by an outfit in Texas. �Probably most have been rebuilt over the years, but there is no paperwork. �However, both companies say they will stand behind them if there are problems. �Kaiser told me that if even on the bench we found that it wasn't in good shape they would send another. �I wouldn't even have to return it. �Well, it has 105 lbs. in all four cylinders and runs like a champ - very smooth. �No oil leaks at all. � I did put a quart of oil in after 1500 miles. �I don't know if this rate of oil use is good or bad, but it will have to do. �I think Kaiser still has these engines available but don't know for sure.

Rule of thumb back in the day was 1 qt per thousand miles. In those days the oil was changed every 1000 miles and the filter every other oil change.

Larry

[rocketeer]

I have a 3A with a GPW motor. �The GPW has the same front engine plate as a 2A. �2A engine is likely chain drive. �When I changed my front engine plate to the 3A style, I had this problem to solve. �(See Photos)

The 3A plate is designed for a gear drive L-134. �As I had to, you will likely have to fill this gap in. �I just welded it closed. �There may be a 3A plate designed for a chain drive L-134 motor, but I don't think so.

2A's after #165477 (middle of 1948) are gear driven as are all 3A's.

Larry

[athawk11]

2A's after #165477 (middle of 1948) are gear driven as are all 3A's.
 
 Larry


Nice to know Larry. �I mistakingly thought the 2As were all chain drive. �I learn something new everyday.