Lots of blue smoke

[3aJeeper]

In an earlier thread I mentioned that I had a little blue smoke coming out the tailpipe. Well, after running it a bit longer after redoing the rear brakes, there seems to be a lot of blue smoke. Higher RPMs seem to equal more smoke. The engine has not run very much or for very long since I got it back in 09. I have limited time/opportunity so progress is very slow. So it gets cranked about once a month on average, so it's not just sitting doing nothing.

Anyway, ran it longer as I was trying out the brakes/clutch/transmission (which all seem to work �:) ) and got a lot of blue smoke. Now, 'longer' is a relative term. It's probably run about 10 minutes. I get concerned about smoking out the neighbors. Again, for that reason it's never really run for very long. Should I just let it run longer for a better assessment? Is there some visual inspections I should conduct - oil pan, valves, etc - to determine possible issues?

Oil looks good on the dipstick and in the filter container. Sparkplugs have a black powder looking coating, but it feels slightly oily but not coated in oil if that makes sense.

Do I need to pull the valve cover and head to check the cylinders? I say that like I know how to do it! �:P

Thanks

[rocketeer]

If it's blowing blue smoke that badly it's most likely the rings are bad. Worn or sticking rings will smoke but not enough to smoke out the neighbors. If it's really that bad I would suspect broken rings which means the more you run it the more likely serious damage could be done to the cylinder walls.

Best place to start is with a compression test of each cylinder.

Larry

[p3ferris]

Not always the rings..if you have bad valve guides this will happen too.  Do as  he said first to determine if you do have bad rings or not. If compression is up then look at the guides.  I would vote for bad rings but I thought you should know the other factor.

[Carls_jeep]

I vote for a complete overhaul. You will end up there any way you go. If the valve guides are that worn the rings are too and on the other hand, if the rings are that worn the valve guides are too.

[macrisel]

I agree with Carl.  If this Jeep has been sitting for a long time, it would be better to start from the pan up and rebuild everything.  This will also give you the opportunity to check out the bearings, seals, rings etc.  Don't be intimidated by the idea of taking out the engine to rebuild it.  These little engines are REALLY easy to get out and work on.

If you are looking for a quick fix or don't have the time for a rebuild right now, start with the rings and go on to the valve guides.

[3aJeeper]

Yea - I was afraid the answer was rebuild. I'm not that skilled a mechanic, but willing to give it a shot. Besides, that's half the fun!

Of course, this will generate more "What the heck is this???" and "Is it suppose to do that??" posts to the forum. �;D

Although I think I will start with the rings and valves..who knows, maybe I'll get lucky.

Any specialty tools that I should know about? Don't want to find that I have to spend big money on a tool I won't use but just for the overhaul.  

Thanks for the help

[Redrockman]

Look for a major ridge at the top of cylinders, cut it with ridge reamer(not expensive tool) before driving out pistons. Check bearing inserts for bad wear(copper showing) and wiggle valves from side to side. If this is your first rebuild ask an experienced friend how it looks, If it passes "muster" get a "ball hone" and some "mechanics cloth" to polish crank. Have valves ground at machine shop and ask if they will cut seats for you(portable). Remember to have fun the first time

 Follow manual step by step and learn and enjoy the job. That's what Jeeps are all about.

[3aJeeper]

Redrockman - yep, half the reason I got an old beater to restore was the rebuild itself. �:D

The kids are going away for a couple of weeks and it'll be a lot calmer around here, so I hope to get a lot done in the evenings. Maybe I'll spend week one tearing down and the following week in rebuild. Does that sound reasonable?

Here's a question - if I need rings, how do I measure? I have no idea if the pistons are standard or have been bored out at some point in its' lifetime so I'll need to know what size to get.

Thanks!

[rocketeer]

The pistons should be marked on top if they're oversize. The cylinder bore will need to be miced not only for size but to determine if it's out of round. If it's out of round it will have to be bored out and new pistons installed. However, this is something an experienced machinist should do.

This will give you a general idea:

http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/75w_engine_cylinders.htm

Larry

[3aJeeper]

Larry - So the pistons will be marked if not standard....that's handy. The link is very good info. Sometimes I think these things are harder than they are, but that looks fairly straight forward and makes sense.

Will post followup and let you know how it goes next week.

Thanks

[macrisel]

Check out this link for your rebuild:

http://www.flatfenderfever.com/id8.html

It has a lot of very good pictures on it and walks you through this engine pretty much step-by-step.  I still refer to it quite a bit when I have a question on the internals.  Anything not covered in this manual can be answered on this forum pretty quick.

Here is a couple of basic tips:
-Buy/make/borrow a good engine stand and cherry picker.  An engine stand that rotates the engine over will be very nice to work on and a cherry picker will come in handy lifting other heavy objects (ie. tranny, rear end, front diff, etc).
-A good set of calipers is a must.  I like a digital one for ease of use
-Always double check your measurements and parts.  Just because the crank is stamped .020" doesn't mean is hasn't been turned again and not stamped....
-Find a good machine shop you trust.  Chances are it isn't going to the one that advertises the most.  Go to car shows, drag strips, drive-ins, truck pulls or anywhere else in your area where gear heads gather and ask around.  They will be more than happy to tell you where they "got there work done".
-TAKE YOUR TIME!

Have fun on the engine rebuild!!  On any project, the engine is always my favorite part!  There is nothing like hearing that heart cough to life after you have had it spread all over your workbench.

One last thought, you can NEVER get the internals of an engine too clean.  If you think you have something clean enough, wipe it down again.

[Redrockman]

Glad to hear you will be having some "quiet" time to get your hands dirty, grease under the fingernails is a wonderful reminder of the progress/frustration of the day. Some people love to get it running, others enjoy the total restoration, depending on the condition and mind set you have.

Wonder if you will miss having all those extra helping hands not there to ask questions while knuckles are being scraped/busted? Sounds like fun to me

[3aJeeper]

Macrisel - great advice and a good link that should be useful, except that somewhere in its' lifetime a PO put in an F-Head, so the info around the valves and such will be different.

Redrockman - yep, the boys are 8 and 10 so it's a lot of questions up until something else comes along! However, 'she-who-must-be-obeyed' probably has other ideas about my upcoming 'free time'. �;D

[Redrockman]

Macrisel, thanks for the tip to the Engine rebuilding page. Looks like he had fun making/sharing page 8-) 8-)

[Gunslinger]

I'm going to chime in on that cleanliness thing, its priceless, a little grit will cause you all kinds of trouble.  Your going to find a machine shop or a motor guy that you trust, and he's going to do the high technical work, while your at it, take the block to him and have him wash it out, most of these guys have a turn table or an oven that they wash or bake out blocks in, this will clean the oil side of the block as well as the water side so you won't have grit in the oil or left over calcium and rust in the water jacket.  Both of these will ruin your day if you overlook them.