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Author Topic: Front Engine Plate Gap?  (Read 7616 times)

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Offline athawk11

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Front Engine Plate Gap?
« on: June 07, 2011, 09:58:19 PM »
Okay,
 I'm mounting a CJ3A plate to a GPW Motor. �I got my new Engine plate. Primed it. �Painted it. �Test fit it. Good, all the bolts line up. �But Wait, what's this? �There appears to be a gap at the top of the cut out for the timing gear where the plate meets the engine face.

I'm no rocket scientist, but isn't this going to leak?



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Offline F Bill

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2011, 10:17:30 PM »
Time for some brazing or welding.......I dimly remember this issue has come up before...but your picture shows the problem pretty darn well. The cutout you see in your 3A plate is for the cam retainer used in a gear drive block, chain drive doesn't use it. When filling in the hole in the plate be sure to not warp the plate. You only need to fill the upper part of the hole, so it looks like the chain drive plate in that area and seals againas the block. Double check with your timing cover that it will seal on that side as well.
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Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.

Offline athawk11

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2011, 11:35:02 PM »
Thanks F Bill.

I am passionate about this thing, but sometimes I want to stick a stake right through my skull for getting involved with this project. �

I remember it like it was yesterday..."Hey honey, let's get an old jeep. �It's the ultimate convertible. �We'll bounce around a little, it will be soooo much fun." �



The thing ran fine. �It wasn't much to look at, so I'll do just a little body work.

Now it's in a hundred pieces, spread over 3 garage spaces. �I'm going broke, and my wife trades off moods of "I don't ever see you anymore" and "When are we gonna get to drive the Willys?"

Tim
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Offline jamesr

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2011, 10:47:05 AM »
Welcome to the Willys world!  We all survived it-- with help from the rest of the members, and maybe laying on a couch babbling things about our childhood, etc. Now we are all better people for it, and we can escape when we want in our Willys.  Jim
PS nice looking flatfender!
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Offline F Bill

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 11:11:00 AM »
Yes, but think of all the "Honey, we aren't gonna spend the night here in the woods because the jeep broke again" moments you are avoiding by doing it right... ;)
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Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.

Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2011, 06:44:29 PM »
Man am I on that Trail as well, with some luck I think I may have made it to the "otherside".  Just empty every pocket, just eat every penny.  JEEP
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Offline rocketeer

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2011, 06:45:52 PM »
Before I would go brazing that plate, here's what I would do. I would make a thin gasket as outlined in red below. Coat both sides with a thin coat of Permatex and put it between the plate and block. The four holes will tighten it in place. I would back up the two upper holes with flat washers on the back side so the gasket doesn't get damaged when thightening the bolts.



Larry
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Offline F Bill

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2011, 10:29:17 PM »
I'd still want to add someting to seal that hole, unless it is a hole to nowhere...Being on the road I don't have a gear drive block here to look at....what is behind the plate? You could use JB weld, silicone, etc....
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Based in central TX and upstate NY.

Offline F Bill

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 10:48:25 PM »
http://www.jeepdoc.com/catalog/partspix/810584.jpg

This clearly shows the two different front plate gaskets, you will need to use the one with the round hole and do whatever it takes to seal it, JB weld on the block, silicone, solder in a patch in the plate, braze the plate, or weld it. I don't think Larry's idea will work in this case but MAYBE a heavier plate installed behind there to seal to the gasket might.. Ag least we aren't dealing with oil under pressure in that area.
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Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.

Offline rocketeer

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2011, 06:04:59 AM »
Quote
http://www.jeepdoc.com/catalog/partspix/810584.jpg

This clearly shows the two different front plate gaskets, you will need to use the one with the round hole and do whatever it takes to seal it, JB weld on the block, silicone, solder in a patch in the plate, braze the plate, or weld it. I don't think Larry's idea will work in this case but MAYBE a heavier plate installed behind there to seal to the gasket might.. Ag least we aren't dealing with oil under pressure in that area.
So if we're not dealing with oil under pressure, and we aren't, why won't a gasket work for that tiny little opening? If there's a real concern then back up the gasket with some silicone sealer behind it but JB Weld and brazing are, in my opinion, extreme measures for a simple problem.

Larry
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Offline F Bill

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2011, 09:14:43 AM »
I wouldn't trust any normal gasket material to not deteriorate over time and blow out there without support from both sides.. SUppose someone pressure washes the engine in that spot a few years down the road....Besides, there is already a gasket there behind the plate...just nothing for it to seal against.

The reman engines we used to get from a very reputable source often had things like valve cover gasket rails built up with some sort of JB weld type of epoxy...Never had a problem with them. I suppose they found it economical for fixing junkyard damage on the cores they were buying. These were for late model 90's cars and trucks... If you built the block up with some JB or devcon, above the block that shows behind the plate in the hole we are talking about, and flat filed the front sealing surface, I guess it would be a fairly simple, no weld fix.

All goes to show there are several ways to approach the same problem...Aplogies to Rocketeer if I offended with my over caution.  :-[
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Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.

Offline rocketeer

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2011, 10:22:34 AM »
Hey no offence taken. I simply have a difference of opinion with the method, that's all. As you say there is no pressure in the chamber so I don't see the concern over it "blowing out". However, I would also suggest that the owner do what he feels gives him that warm and fuzzy feeling after it's all said and done. �:)

By the way, you making it to the Picnic this Sunday?

Larry
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Offline F Bill

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2011, 10:28:59 AM »
I am in Tulsa, and might make it to Iowa by the weekend.. I miss those shows back East...

Ever take off an old timing cover that uses a full sheet gasket and notice how the paper curls up and away from the block where it is not securely held in ? I forget what engines I used to work on that did that..That's the kind of "blowout" I am referring to, just heat and oil fumes over time causing the gasket to warp out of position...Or an enthusiastic steam cleaner wand doing the same thing.  Failure might occur years down the road, and you are right, probably will work in most instances the way you suggested. But on my own stuff, Murphy loves to show his ugly face and anything I can do to get him outathere is a good thing.  ;)

Enjoy the show, say hi to Bob W and the gang for me..
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Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.

Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2011, 05:24:38 PM »
Hi guys, I'm no whiz bang at this stuff, but I think I might be tempted to use some black RTV gasket material, its heat tolerant and has a pretty high tensile strength.  We are dealing with no pressure here, just splashes.  i think I'd be tempted to apply it into the hole from the front, put enough in to blob up on the back side and plug the front flush.  It cures overnight and locks up tight.  If it doesnt work, nothing lost and no damage done.

Just a thought, wheres' the picnic?
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Offline rocketeer

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Re: Front Engine Plate Gap?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2011, 06:08:30 PM »
Quote
Just a thought, wheres' the picnic?
http://cj-3a.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1294012835

Larry
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