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Offline Tom S.

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Where to start?
« on: December 03, 2018, 06:13:02 AM »
Hey folks, need advice please. Now that the body is gone, I feel a bit overwhelmed. Former farm Jeep with what I imagine is 23,000 hard miles. Been sitting since 1977. Frozen motor with visible flaky rust on pistons as viewed through spark plug holes. Has PTO with bent driveshaft. I know I have to rebuild just about every component but I worry about the transmission, clutch, transfer case etc. I have never dealt with those. How do I determine that they need a rebuild, if at all? Same question with axles. Frame is great so I�ll be cleaning, scraping and degreasing for a while. While I wait, gonna pull the head, clean the rust, and fill cylinders with mystery oil. I really do want to build a new 51 so the advice will be used and appreciated. Thanks.... Tom

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 01:59:25 PM »
Good question....it can sure seem overwhelming when you stand back and look at the whole thing.

Start small.....clean things up, take lots of pictures for future reference.

There is an access port on the top of the bell housing and you can take it off and look in there....

Also the shift tower unbolts from the transmission case and you can look around in there...sometimes it is full of water so don't be surprised or discouraged.

Once you get the drive shafts off you can spin the axles and listen, feel for rough bearings.

Drain the engine oil and look for water or small bits of metal.

I would give the mystery oil plenty of time to work. Some use a mixture of Automatic Transmission Fluid and acetone....

The transmission and transfer case are pretty simple, lots of guidance in the tech section of the home page.

http://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips.htm

You can do it...be sure to take lots of pictures!

Randy



« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 02:01:37 PM by 1955CJ-5 »
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 55 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline Tom S.

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 04:08:56 PM »
Thank you Randy, good stuff to get me through the winter, especially combined with playing with the Buick.

Offline athawk11

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 06:34:44 PM »
I've done this a couple different ways.  I don't have a ton of room to spread out, so I needed to plan my tasks based on that.  First off, I would get a nice heavy duty cover to put over that beautiful Buick.  Especially if you'll be working in the same space.

Tim 

 
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Offline oldtime

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 06:53:50 PM »
If you truly want a new 1951 then you will have to take every single item apart then clean and closely inspect everything in good light.

First take it all down to complete sub-assemblies. Like engine, transmission, suspension etc.

Get down to the bare rame and start with that.

Later you can further dis-assemble the sub assemblies in order to re-build them after the frame has been completed.

Basic rebuild order is frame/ suspension / axle assemblies / shocks /steering / brakes / transfer case /transmission / propellers / clutch / engine / wiring / ande so on




Offline Tom S.

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 10:53:38 PM »
First, thank you Tim for the Buick compliment and yes, she has a nice cover for the winter. I had just taken it out for one last stretch before she goes up on the jack stands.. and covered. I will be doing rear axle bearings on her and upgrading the radio this winter along with getting the Jeep started... which brings me to the next gentleman. Thank you for the sobering but truly correct way to get a �new� 51. I�m just hoping that these sub assemblies don�t need full rebuilds... maybe I can get away with fluids,  seals, gaskets etc... one question - how can I tell if the leaf springs are good ?
Thanks again.

Offline oldtime

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 10:30:38 AM »
If shackles come to rest at 45* or greater angle with jeep at normal unloaded weight then consider the to spring assemblies to  not be serviceable.

That does not imply individual the individual leaves to all be bad.
There is a valid procedure for rebuilding original leaf spring assemblies using original donor parts.
That rebuild may or may not be feasible for your springs.

From what I can see your springs certainly appear to have lost arc yet appear to remain servicable.

Serviceable generally does not imply "like new" performance.

For an old Jeep to be fully 100* dependable that will mandate full knowledge concerning the exact condition of each and every single component.

If that's your goal it may be advantageous to approximate condition of various assemblies prior to full disassembly.

You must somehow  learn to make the rebuild process enjoyable in order to succeed.

Offline athawk11

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 12:05:53 PM »
All good tips from our talented group.� �

I would suggest that you work toward getting the engine to run, then re-evaluate from there.� Whether you need to rebuild it or refurbish it can go a long way to determining your commitment level on a project like this.� It is the heartbeat of your 3A.� Knowing that it has a decent ticker, when all said and done, makes all the rest of the tasks more enjoyable in the end.

You might think this is crazy, but you are in a good position to do this now.� The tub is off, which gives you good access to the engine and it's components.� (Fuel pump, starter, electrical components, etc...)� You can break it free if you need to.� You can hook up temporary fuel delivery and a temporary ignition circuit with relatively little effort.� �These little engines want to run.� They will do so even if in really rough condition.� Start it, run it, even throw a temp seat on it, then take it for a spin.� Once you know what you've got to work with, the plan of attack becomes easier.� At least it did for me.

And remember, we are all here to help you succeed.� There isn't a problem or a challenge we all haven't faced already.� All are surmountable.

Tim
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 12:06:34 PM by athawk11 »
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Offline Mark W.

Re: Where to start?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 05:07:24 PM »
Just so you know you can not see the top of the piston through the spark plug hole the spark plug sits over top of the valves off to the side of the cylinder. But your rings are most likely rusted to the cylinder walls if its bee sitting that long. At least any cylinder a valve was open. My engine sat since Sept 1976 and I had two pistons that after weeks of soaking still had to be pounded out with a round wood plug and a BF hammer.
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Offline Mark W.

Re: Where to start?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 05:09:37 PM »
Chug A Lug

1948 CJ2A Tub and Title
1949 CJ3A Windshield
1957 CJ5� �Frame and Springs
134L T90 9.25" D18 D25 and D44 30 spline
11" Brakes, Saginaw Steering, 12V electrical
currently in a zillion pi

Offline Tom S.

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 08:20:28 PM »
Funny you just post that as tonight I removed the head and realized that what I was seeing was not pistons. What I did see, however, was a big mess. This to me looks like a motor rebuild, but I know so little about these engines that I turn to you guys for hope. What do you think. Clean it up and soak it in mystery oil till March and she�ll purr like a kitten??? I jest, of course.

Offline Tom S.

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 08:21:56 PM »
Another view

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Where to start?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2018, 10:40:45 PM »
Well, my engine was also seized, and one of the pistons was pretty beat up.

While it was in the shop for rebuild I had plenty of time to work on the other things.....

I found my machine shop through the local Military Vehicle Preservation chapter.

A thorough vacuum job may make it look a little better, but I don't hear that kitten purring......not just yet anyway.....

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Offline stony

Re: Where to start?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 10:23:12 PM »
Hmmmm, is that all rust, or carbon and crap from the head?  The cylinders don�t look too bad.  Looks like the head gasket was blown between two and three.  How do the combustion chambers look?  It may not be as bad as you think.  This is what I started with and it cleaned up quite nicely.
Terry
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On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.