Driving with the windshield down

[mrman5917]

Hey everyone,

I've got friends staying with us this Thanksgiving week and I showed them my Jeep which happened to have the windshield down. They asked if it was legal to drive it that way, and I said as far as I know it is. I searched the California Vehicle Code and found the section on windshield requirements, and now I am very confused.

If I understand it correctly, a windshield is required, but may not if the vehicle is old enough to not require one? Does having one and it being folded down count as having one? I don't drive with it down very often, in fact I can only think of twice since I've had it, but it sure would suck to get a ticket for something like that.

[mud pie]

When I was a senior in high school, I took Criminal Justice.  One of the books we had was the NY penal code (oh yeah, I grew up on Long Island).  while thumbing through it, I noticed the section about vehicle windshields.  I read it and stuck a sliver of paper in it (before the days of Post-Its).  It interested me because I kept hearing over and over about how it was illegal to drive with the windshield down.

A few days later I got pulled over for driving with the windshield down.  I told the officer it wasn't against the law.  He, all smart-alecky, goes, "Oh and YOU know the law better than ME ?"  I smiled and said, "Well, yes I do !" and took out my book and read that the law states (if I'm remembering it all correctly), that the windshield had to display both inspection and registeration stickers in the lower left corner, be free of cracks, etc., but it didn't say anywhere that it had to be upright.  I pointed that part out, in a teenage snotty tone.  I even added, as I snapped the book shut, "Now, did you hear anything that said it has to be UPRIGHT ?"

He looked at it, smiled and said, "Put the fu*king thing up or I'll cite you and you can re-read that to the judge."

Sheepishly, I put it up.  He drove away.  I put it back down.  Later that day, he passed me.  He blipped his siren, I looked at him, he smiled.  Never pulled me over again.

I drove a 1954 M38A1 in full military get-up.  He knew it was me from blocks away.....

[Carls_jeep]

I think the fold down windshields are grandfathered in. When I registered my Jeep here in Ky I asked the sheriff if I had to have turn signals and seat belts. He said, did the Jeep come with them and I said no. He said it don't need them.

Of course this is Ky and we are, well, considered backward and backwoods by most people so maybe if you come to Ky you could drive with the windshield down. Next spring I intend to drive with the windshield down until the sun forces me to put the top on or I get tired of the wind in my face.

[mrspeedyt]

i think the law generally requires 'eye protection' like a motorcycle rider....

[calvinhunt]

Like Carl in KY, we here in Utah also have the grandfather clause.  Like most states, we have to have yearly vehicle safety inspections.  When I went in for my first safety inspection two years ago the inspector told me that the vehicle could be inspected and licensed with (1) a single tail / stop light (which was on the left), (2) no turn signals, (3) no seat belts, (4) a single vacuum wiper on the driver's side (my Jeep has the manual wiper on the passenger side), and (5) a fold-down windshield could be either down or up when driven because the vehicle was manufactured that way.  I'm afraid that with the loss of so many other former freedoms and liberties, we may one day lose our "grandfather clauses" as well.  Enjoy 'em while you got 'em!

Makes me wonder, are there some states that no longer enjoy such grandfather clauses?  Are some of you required to "modernize" your old Jeeps in order to license and drive them?

[mrman5917]

Well that was what got me. The code in CA states:

Windshields: Exception

26700.  (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), a passenger vehicle, other than a motorcycle, and every bus, motortruck or truck tractor, and every firetruck, fire engine or other fire apparatus, whether publicly or privately owned, shall be equipped with an adequate windshield.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any vehicle issued identification plates pursuant to Section 5004 which was not required to be equipped with a windshield at the time it was first sold or registered under the laws of this state, another state, or foreign jurisdiction.

Amended Ch. 222, Stats. 1983. Effective January 1, 1984.

So, it appears that there is a type of grandfathering, but it requires some sort of identification plates perhaps? I wonder if that is just an old license plate? It would also appear that the "exception" is more of having no windshield then having a folded down windshield. Sounds like it might be time to contact the CHP and see what they say, though I may end up getting different answers from different officers.

[calvinhunt]

My dad used to say, "Some issues are like a bucket of sh*t; the more you stir them the more they stink." �Maybe this is one of those issues. �It's been my observation for the past 50 years that cops and lawmakers are more and more anxious to tell the citizenry that you can't do this or you can't do that. �They get their endorphins not from improving the world but in controlling others. �Thomas Jefferson said, "That government which governs least governs best." �I wish we had elected officials today that thought like that. �

One good thing about living in Southern Utah is that the country cops around here don't much care about an innocent little Jeep on a summer afternoon drive with the windshield down. �Another good thing is that when the world ends we won't know it for 40 years!

[Bob W]

Here in NY the "grandfathering" applies to the vehicles hardware and not the operation of the vehicle. You can drive a 1950 CJ-3A as originally equipped from the factory (no seat belts, one tail light, etc) but you need to follow the 2010 traffic laws.  

[Carls_jeep]

There is most likely a law prohibiting almost anything you do. I am reading a book called Neither Wolf Nor Dog by Kent Nerburn. Chapter 14 is about the Indian interpretation of honor and freedom. We don't have true freedom and never will because we are structured and a structured society does not have true freedom. There is another saying that holds truth, When in Rome do as the Romans do. Which leads to a good rule to follow, when on the road follow the common law, when off road do as you wish.

[calvinhunt]

Here in NY the "grandfathering" applies to the vehicles hardware and not the operation of the vehicle. You can drive a 1950 CJ-3A as originally equipped from the factory (no seat belts, one tail light, etc) but you need to follow the 2010 traffic laws. �:)

BobW, Really good answer. �I think that is probably the way it is in most states. �I'm glad. �Still, there have been times when I've been out four-wheeling with my friends and I've been the only one without a roll bar and seat belts. �I have been a little uncomfortable in a situation or two. �Probably shouldn't be going where those guys go, anyway. �

Still wonder, like stated in my earlier response above, are there any states that presently require seat belts, turn signals, etc., even on these old Jeeps???

[calvinhunt]

There is another saying that holds truth, When in Rome do as the Romans do. Which leads to a good rule to follow, when on the road follow the common law, when off road do as you wish.

Carlsjeep �Another really good answer. �Makes a lot of common sense and works no matter what the law is.

[jamesr]

In the '70s I built a '23 bucket T hot rod show car.  It had open tires alll the way around, and the tiltle said "1974 Ford, assembled".  One state cop said I had to have fenders because it was a 1974 Ford, another said "no, the law says anything prior to 1934, or assembled, does not need fenders if driven on hard pavement, in dry conditions.  You obviously have an assembled 1923 Ford, so no fenders are required"  I took a photo to the State Police cop shop, and out of 7 officers, 4 said they would right me up, 3 said they would not, and they all wanted me to take a ticket, and see what the judge ruled.  I said I was unwilling to do that because if the judged ruled against me, then a bunch of hot rodders in the state would be mad at me.  So I kept my mouth shut, drove it without fenders,and never got a ticket by any jurisdiction.  Somethings are better not to point out.  Jim

[Carls_jeep]

That is true, if you seek an answer the answer may not be what you want to hear. Interpretation of law is a little open ended until you get to the last court of decision.

[mrman5917]

That is true, if you seek an answer the answer may not be what you want to hear. Interpretation of law is a little open ended until you get to the last court of decision.

Good point, I think I'll just let it be for now, I'll be starting my tear down in the next few weeks, so it will be a while before I can drive it, regardless of windshield position.

[Jesse]

I think of it this way: My jeep has way more legal problems than the windshield being folded down. If the police wanted to go after me for violations, they could be writing all day. I also look at it this way: If I'm not making any trouble, they will probably not even pull me over in the first place. I say put some bugs in those pearly whites!