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Author Topic: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!  (Read 11559 times)

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Offline Chuck W.

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2020, 03:25:33 PM »
Do a compression test, you are obviously getting compression into the crankcase.
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Offline Rus Curtis

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2020, 03:29:26 PM »
I just watched M2J's video and yes, there's a bit of a leak at the return line under the canister.  As the engine starts, you can see that trickle and after approx 23 seconds there's a spew that comes out of the filler neck - looks almost like a garden hose, shooting out to the fender.

I would think that given your fresh oil smells like gas and the way it looks you'd want to fix that pump issue first.  And it would mean another oil change.  BTW, have you checked the gas level in the tank?  I'd guess it's a lot lower than before.

video to follow.  See if this works...

https://youtu.be/1EiQVnz2h8c
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 03:57:37 PM by Rus Curtis »
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Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2020, 04:17:58 PM »
That is amazing....

Almost looks like water mixed in also. How is the water level in the radiator?

Something is seriously wrong. I don't think a leaky fuel pump could deliver that much volume into the pan in so short a time. The pumps have a  diaphragm and a seal that the fuel must get through first, if they are to leak fuel into the pan.

A pump that is working properly is supposed to deliver about a quart a minute, according to the manual....

Long shot.....There isn't an electric fuel pump mounted back towards the tank, is there?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:23:45 PM by 1955CJ-5 »
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Offline Mytwojeeps2020

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2020, 04:23:38 PM »
The water level in the radiator is ok.

I'll order a new fuel pump (and both lines to/from the oil filter canister) today.

I saw another thread that said replacement of the lower canister hose is easier with the fuel pump out, so that will work.

THANKS ALL !

PS: Rus, thanks for getting that video to Youtube. It speaks a thousand words!
PPS: Nope, no secondary electric fuel pump.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 04:27:32 PM by Mytwojeeps2020 »
First Car at 16: 1958 CJ3B    (RIP)
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Current Jeep: 1961 CJ5 “Olaf”

Offline SteveKfl

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2020, 05:37:38 PM »
WOW, that video showed a gusher and almost clear.  If that clearness was gas, it is spraying right on your distributor which is dangerous.  I think I would pull the plug on the side of the block and get a sample of the coolant for analysis to see if gas and/or oil is there as well.  That seems to be a lot more flow than a quart/minute from the looks of it  Buy the cheapest oil you can until you get this fixed..  That gas can't stay in the oil pan either.  Pulling the pan may reveal new info too for the price of a gasket while the engine is down.  What a mystery.  Good Luck!
 
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Offline Mytwojeeps2020

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2020, 09:15:06 AM »
It doesn’t look like it’s too much trouble to replace the gas pump, so I’ll try doing that myself. Beats taking it to the garage if it’s a simple job. Ive never done it before.

I dread dropping the oil pan, but I’ll do that as well. I’ve never done that before either.  What makes it worse is that I’m operating on a dirt floor.

I’ll get as much gas out of the oil as possible, replace filter and oil, and try cranking again.

I’ll be back in a couple of weeks with an update.

MANY THANKS!
First Car at 16: 1958 CJ3B    (RIP)
Second Jeep: 1964 CJ6 (Re-homed in 2022)
Current Jeep: 1961 CJ5 “Olaf”

Offline Rus Curtis

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2020, 10:56:54 AM »
It doesn’t look like it’s too much trouble to replace the gas pump, so I’ll try doing that myself. Beats taking it to the garage if it’s a simple job. Ive never done it before.

I dread dropping the oil pan, but I’ll do that as well. I’ve never done that before either.  What makes it worse is that I’m operating on a dirt floor.

I’ll get as much gas out of the oil as possible, replace filter and oil, and try cranking again.

I’ll be back in a couple of weeks with an update.

MANY THANKS!

The pump should be easy:  2 bolts and a gasket.  Whoever supplies the pump, check to ensure it has modern rubber that is compatible with Ethenol.  Original rubber can either already be brittle or could deteriorate faster with modern fuels.  No idea if you have vacuum wipers but if that's not a desire, there's no need to add additional complications.  You may be able to get yours rebuilt with a better diaphragm and possibly cheaper, but I'd check with Scoutpilot for advise.

I'm not sure there's an advantage to dropping the pan unless you want to inspect the float (the round oil pickup that pulls oil up to the pump) and see if it's clogged or if there's clumps at the bottom of the pan that needs cleaning out.  But having an undesired gas mix running through your oil has cleaned your engine. But, if done, you'll need to ensure the pan flange is flat around the holes so that it won't cut into the gasket when re-attaching.  See here (I did this to my oil pan):
https://cj3b.info/Engine/Rebuild7.html

On your dirt floor, suggest a tarp (may be easier to slide around on) or just some scrap cardboard (also helps with sliding around).  Both keep you cleaner.  There was a thread over on the 2A forum where specific products are available that really are slippery and aid sliding around under a vehicle.  Nothing wrong with going low-tech.

I'd also suggest using cheap oil until you get this sorted out.  Once you can successfully run the engine without spewing fluids or mixing those fluids, and this oil has a chance to "rinse" the gas residual out of the passages, then you can do a good oil change with some ZDDP (additive or high content).

To Steve's point, I would initially assume that either oil or gas would float on the top of water/antifreeze and "should" be visible through the radiator neck - as droplets.  Also, if antifreeze were getting into the oil passages, there should be droplets on the dipstick or when pouring the oil out.  I've not seen everything and have been proven wrong many times.  But sometimes a jar full of liquid is helpful to identify what's in it - even crud floating around in the liquid.

I see above you've already ordered the oil lines for the canister.  I ran into a problem when a trusted vendor sent the wrong length hose.  I asked why there was a difference and the answer was, "Most owners remove a stock fitting on the bottom of the canister so the extra length on the hose is designed to attach directly to the canister."  I had to shop around and ordered from a military vendor.

Read about that here:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cj3b_bulletin_board/viewtopic.php?p=44894#p44894
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Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2020, 11:43:05 AM »
Out of curiosity I took the dip stick out of my engine and started it, fully expecting some blow-by to exit the fill tube, as my engine has never been rebuilt.

But, I felt nothing, so I covered the tube with my hand and there was just a bit of suction, this was at idle.

I still marvel at that geyser and wonder where that much pressure and volume of fluid could be coming from...
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Offline Bruce_W

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2020, 01:49:06 PM »
  The oil is contaminated (thinned) with gasoline. The piston rings can't seal effectively without a coating of oil to help. The thinned oil is not doing what it's supposed to. Worse yet, the rings and cylinder walls might be washed down by excess gasoline in the combustion chambers. The OP has a Solex carb and evidently no fuel pressure regulator. We've all heard the Solex horror stories. Thinned oil, washed-down cylinder walls, rings not able to seal, more fuel in the chambers than the engine can burn, which will be forced past the rings as well. More blowby than the PCV system can even hope to handle, especially at higher speeds. I'm surprised the engine runs at all, and I fear for its welfare in the future, considering what its been through.
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Offline Mytwojeeps2020

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2020, 09:35:33 AM »
I’ve still got a few experiments left to do, which I can’t get to until at least next week, so I’ll sign off for now.

Thanks all, and please have a good Thanksgiving! I’ll be back with the results.
First Car at 16: 1958 CJ3B    (RIP)
Second Jeep: 1964 CJ6 (Re-homed in 2022)
Current Jeep: 1961 CJ5 “Olaf”

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2020, 12:17:27 AM »
I had the same problem with the F134 in my '57 CJ3B. As I drove, the oil would get sucked out of the engine into the oil bath air cleaner. It turned out that my engine was very worn and had a lot of blowback along with low compression. I since had the engine rebuilt and that solved the problem. No more oil overflowing the air bath cup.

Offline PercyUK

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2020, 03:12:53 AM »

Hi, sorry if I am stating the obvious but you did suggest that you had not much experience with engines.
You describe replacing some hoses. Are you confident that they were not pinched during the process. Just a thought but if the hose to or from you oil filter was blocked by such a pinch the oil, now under pressure, would have no option but to find another route.
  It seems that you have had a lot of problems as a result of a simple oil change and if it was working before you did it then it should be working now. It is likely, in my opinion, that the fault may lie in the initial hose replacement or the filter itself.

Offline Mytwojeeps2020

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2020, 05:33:05 PM »
Gary,
You’re right. After I run the next couple of experiments (hopefully, next week), I’ll be able to get a little closer to the problem. If it’s the engine, I may take my .45 and put her down. But hopefully, it’s the fuel pump. I intend to do a compression test as well, in addition to replacing both oil filter lines. We shall see...

Percy,
No hose has been replaced, only the PCV line.  I’m going to be replacing the two oil filter lines next week, along with a brand new fuel pump. This trouble started very shortly after I replaced the first fuel pump. It may have been bad to begin with.

PS: I’ve been running non-ethonal gas for the last ten years.
First Car at 16: 1958 CJ3B    (RIP)
Second Jeep: 1964 CJ6 (Re-homed in 2022)
Current Jeep: 1961 CJ5 “Olaf”

Offline PercyUK

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2020, 11:45:26 AM »
OK sorry I misunderstood your original post. Fuel in the sump is a classic pump failure symptom. Good luck.

Offline Mytwojeeps2020

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Re: Oil filler tube upchucking oil into my oil bath air filter!
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2020, 05:47:36 PM »
The Big Day is Tomorrow!

So far:

New PCV valve is GO,
New PCV line from crankcase to intake manifold is GO,
New oil lines to & from oil filter canister are GO,
Drained oil pan and refilled with oil, GO
New fuel pump is a GO.

If she fires, I’ll do a compression test.

All luck to me!

PS: why do I feel like one of those stranded persons in the desert seeing if their hand- made aircraft will fly them to safety (Flight if the Phoenix)?
First Car at 16: 1958 CJ3B    (RIP)
Second Jeep: 1964 CJ6 (Re-homed in 2022)
Current Jeep: 1961 CJ5 “Olaf”