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Offline Quebec Jeep

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Clutch replacement
« on: November 18, 2019, 11:30:55 AM »
What would be the easiest way to replace the clutch on my CJ3A 1950?

I have no mechanical knowledge or a little.

I do have an engine hoist/crane if needed.
I'm jeepcoholic!

Offline athawk11

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Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2019, 01:20:21 PM »
Hello Pascal!

Uhg  / Yuke.
 
Replacing the clutch is one of those jobs that is easy…once you’ve separated the engine from the transmission.    You can pull the engine…or pull the transmission/transfer case/bell housing.  Because this is quite a chore, there is usually a strong probability of “project creep”.  Project creep happens because lots of us end up doing other projects that require the engine or transmission to be pulled, so we decide to do them while the drive train is separated.  This can be as minor as cleaning and repainting the firewall…right up to heavier jobs like rear main seal replacements or transmission rebuilds.
The two most difficult aspects for me…

1.   Separating the bell housing from the engine.  The top bolts are difficult to get at.  They are difficult to get apart and to re-assemble.
2.   Aligning the transmission input shaft into the newly replaced clutch disc.  Stab, stab, shift, stab…then do this a dozen more times.  Every once in a while, they slide together on the first shot…but this is rare.

There are tricks for both tasks.  Without getting too wordy, it might be best to go over these when you’re ready to take it apart. 
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline Squishymonster

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2019, 01:39:24 PM »
I don't have direct experience, but I did an engine and clutch swap on a 6 cylinder SUV before. It was more modern so there were a LOT more things to pull of the engine before it could be removed. Either way, if I was going to do just a clutch swap I'd strongly consider pulling the transfer case and transmission from below. You'd want to get the vehicle up as high as you safely can - I'd put it on 4 jack stands and get a creeper. If the CJs are the same as the SUV I did, the engine / transmission bolts thread in the from the transmission side - the tops were a PITA to get at. I used a 2 foot long ratchet extension, and one or two swivels. I was wrenching the thing from back by the exhaust, but it made it a lot easier to have a somewhat straight shot in.

You need the right kind of (transmission) jack to lower the parts out without dropping them on you - it's harder to manage than using an engine lift to pull up on an engine. I chained my transmission around a normal small-footprint floor jack and it was sketchy at best. I'd buy the right tool this time.

This would have pros and cons. On the downside, you have to work entirely from under the vehicle. On the upside, you don't have to unhook anything from the engine compartment. It seems like a CJ would be a lot easier than a modern vehicle but I bet the radiator would still need to come out. (I pulled my SUV engine out through the middle of the AC lines because I didn't want to drain them and refill. It was a total pain, and I wore a face mask and thick gloves in case I busted a line...)

This might sound like a joke, but if you decide to go from underneath, start doing crunches and head lifts in your spare time. Your back and neck will hate you otherwise.

Offline Quebec Jeep

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Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2019, 03:04:59 PM »
My plan for now is to remove the engine.
Should be easy, right?

Should i bought only the clutch disk or a kit (disk, pressure plate, carrier and bearing)?
Someone told me to buy a tool to align the disk with the pressure plate.

I need to replace the crankshaft rear main seal also so i will do it at the same time. I plan to buy the rubber one instead of the rope, good idea?

I will buy a new oil pan gasket also.

I might replace the engine rubber mount as well.

Anything i should plan?
I'm jeepcoholic!

Offline aboyandhisdog

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 04:01:43 PM »
Pascal, 

I pulled out my engine and replaced the clutch last summer.  I bought the kit with the carrier and bearing and it also came with the alignment tool you need.  You WILL want that tool so if the kit doesn't include it, buy one.  I did the front cap and seal on the transmission at the same time but you'll order them separately if you go that route. 

I did not have trouble at all with the bolts at the top of the bell housing.  I had heard they were trouble, but could get to them just fine with a 9/16 gear wrench and a box wrench.  You can do a dry run on them right now to see what you can expect - can you get your hand in there? 

I did NOT replace the rear main seal so have no idea what that will add to the job.  I have heard the rubber seals are preferred to the rope, as the rope will always "weep" no matter what you do.  I believe you will also find that the fiber/rubber style for the oil pan is preferred to the cork which can squish out easier. 

All in all, I was quite surprised at the ease of pulling and replacing the engine.  In fact, I am doing it again this winter so I can break in an engine that I just had rebuilt.

The one thing I will do this go-around will be to remove the battery.  It will get in the way as you are jockeying the engine around to get it in the bay.  I left the bumper and grill on the jeep.

I will add, I have the 2 ton hoist from Harbor Freight and it didn't have the reach I needed to get to the sweet spot from the front of the jeep (with the bumper on).  I ended up taking the front passenger wheel off and grabbing the engine from the side.  That worked okay but was a pain.  I have since bought some 2" steel tube stock, drilled a couple of holes and have extended the arm of the hoist so that I now will have no problem with reach from the front.  Just something to check out before you begin.

Good luck and enjoy this job, you'll have fun!  (most of the time)
Tom


Offline Rus Curtis

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2019, 05:09:11 PM »
My plan for now is to remove the engine.
Should be easy, right?

Should i bought only the clutch disk or a kit (disk, pressure plate, carrier and bearing)?
Someone told me to buy a tool to align the disk with the pressure plate.

I need to replace the crankshaft rear main seal also so i will do it at the same time. I plan to buy the rubber one instead of the rope, good idea?

I will buy a new oil pan gasket also.

I might replace the engine rubber mount as well.

Anything i should plan?

Good advice to consider.  Here's my .02 cents worth:  This is a tough area to get into.  It has been suggested to me (a long time ago) when you are in there, replace the throw out bearing.  It's relatively cheap and it would be bad to leave it (probably been there since the clutch was done last time) only to need to replace it 2-3 months down the road. I also replace the pilot bearing too.

For my jeep, I need to get into my transfer case and will attempt to pull all of it out together.    My plan is to remove the front of the jeep (fenders radiator guard, radiator still attached) so that I have room to work - and then lift the whole thing out.  Once out, I can access any one of the components easily and then reassemble.  I say attempt because I've only read about it being done by others.

I've also read about some who have designed/purchased cradles to use with a jack to balance the gear boxes but I don't like the idea of laying down while trying to wrestle the gear boxes off the back of the bell housing.  Now if I was standing under a lift, using a tall jack to cradle the drive train, that would be different.
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2019, 07:41:49 PM »
If you pull the engine and transmission together I would follow Rus's advice and remove the grill/radiator assembly and maybe even the fenders.

You can see the engine alone is a very tight fit and if the transmission were still attached I'm not sure if you could get it out....

If you pull the tranny remember to wire the output shaft when you remove the transfer case or you will loose all those needle bearings....check the tech notes on securing the output shaft....

https://www.cj3apage.com/index/Tech_Tips/Model%2018%20Rebuild.htm

Section D8.....

Randy
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 08:52:54 PM by 1955CJ-5 »
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 55 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline athawk11

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Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2019, 11:05:13 AM »
I too have had the most success when I remove the grill and radiator.

Before yanking it out of there, double and triple check that you've disconnected ALL items that penetrate the firewall.  As many times as I've pulled engines out of these things, I still forgot to disconnect the temperature gauge on the 2A.  I ruined a perfectly functional 73 year old gauge.  I was a bit upset with myself.



2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline aboyandhisdog

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2019, 03:14:11 PM »
Tim, you didn't do it that way with the tractor by yourself did you?  I can't imagine not having full control of a hoist right next to the engine while trying to guide it out.  I can see why you would need to remove the grill doing it that way.  I'll bet Rachel was thrilled with the oil stains on the driveway! ;) >:(
Tom


Offline Rus Curtis

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2019, 04:15:39 PM »
I wished I had a hoist like that!
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C

Offline athawk11

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Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 04:32:01 PM »
Hi Tom,
Yes, I do it this way by myself.  I am pretty competent on the tractor.  I do have a soft touch, but do have to jump out a few times during the pull to reevaluate the situation.  I put them back in the same way.  I will say, I'm far more careful when messing with the Green 3A.  Don't want to scratch it, you know.

I did make a big mess.  I bumped my oil drain pan with my jack.  I was in too much of a hurry.  I was scrubbing concrete for almost as long as it took to pull the engine.
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline Gunslinger

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2019, 10:39:40 AM »
Pascal, One tidbit to remember, absolutely replace the input shaft pilot bearing when you do this.  It sits in the flywheel, just a bronze bushing but if you don't, you get to do this all over again... ask me how I know..
Gun.
Climbs trees, hides in the long grass, hangs out with wet dogs...

Offline Quebec Jeep

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Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2019, 02:59:00 PM »
Ok. I ordered my parts from Walcks 4 WD and i just got them.

So here is what i got;

Clutch kit 8 1/2 (clutch disk, pressure plate, throw out bearing with collar )
Spring carrier return clutch
Pilot bushing
Oil pan gasket
Rear main seal kit
Clutch alignment tool

So i should be able to do it.



I'm jeepcoholic!

Offline Bruce_W

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2019, 07:56:53 PM »
 :(  NICE pan gasket! What'd they do, wad it up and stuff it in the box? I'd look that over closely, especially where it was folded. Any sign of cracking, I wouldn't use it. Tell them you want another, shaken, not stirred.  BW
Until We Jeep Again...........

Offline aboyandhisdog

Re: Clutch replacement
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2019, 09:00:45 PM »
:(  NICE pan gasket! What'd they do, wad it up and stuff it in the box? I'd look that over closely, especially where it was folded. Any sign of cracking, I wouldn't use it. Tell them you want another, shaken, not stirred.  BW

Yea, but he got a free calendar! ;D
Tom