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Author Topic: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A  (Read 390 times)

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Offline 51USNCJ3A

Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« on: September 30, 2019, 10:17:46 PM »
First off, I have searched and read a lot since I have found this forum.  Thank you to all who have contributed. I come to this with experience in AMC and newer Jeeps, but this is my first Willys. (Are they like Lays potato chips?)  First off, this is the 608th CJ3A made as a 1952. My username is off, because the title states that it is a 1951. I believe this stems from the fact that it went into the US Navy in 12 of 1951. I assume the Navy sold it as a 1951.  I am not particularity worried about that aspect. I have the full Navy dataplate and it completely matches the Willys plate on the firewall.  I have found that there are a few of these CJ3A's that served non combat use in the USN, but not sure what role this Jeep played.  I have read that 3a's the USN ordered, had the bottom mount radiator.  This Jeep appears to support that.(pardon the pun) I am not aware of any other special equipment that the USN 3A's received.   

Here are a few pics, and the list of obvious changes over the years:
Seats
Steering column/wheel.
Front bumper.
Top bows.
Several switches/gauges
Selecto hubs.
Warn OD.
Carburetor.
Radiator.
12V with Alternator
Small Flange block with 1948 head casting number.  (block numbers question below)
Fuel tanks and loss of tool box.
Custom Yellow paint.




 I believe I have figured out several things, but have a few questions:

1) Can anyone shed light on the tailgate?  It doesn't match any of the options I have found here:  http://cj3b.info/Dating/DatingTailgates.html    The brackets on the inside are definately spot welded on like a factory would do. However, there is no Willys script, or "notches" on the outside... 




2) Does this all look like a bottom mount rad crossmember to you?  (clearly, I understand that the cross flow isn't original)


3) Steering box/ column.  I am pretty sure chrome is wrong. Steering wheel is wrong.  Question: is the box also wrong? The floor is sure chopped up around the column.




4) Engine block is a small flange variety.  Head had a casting date in 1948. Number over the water pump is all gone but for a 2. I assume that this stems from machine work on the 'deck'. There is a number stamped on the RH side, front, just below the head. Anyone know if this number means anything?



5) The foot starter has a bell crank arrangement that moves the "button" over very close to the gas pedal.  There is a lot of holes torched into the tub on both sides of this.  Seems wrong to me. 




That is the bulk of the questions I have now.  I am sure there will be more later....  Plans for it? restore it to it's US Navy appearance. I do not plan to swap out the carb or the block unless they are somehow failing to perform.  I want it to be 'stock', but not 'take it to military shows and have everything perfect'. My Vietnam era Navy veteran is quite excited to see something besides Olive Drab in parades.  Heck, he is having trouble finding Jeeps at all for parades.  I suspect that is what this will mostly do.  I will own it, but, I feel that it really belongs to those who have served. I will make it look as close to original as possible, put as nice a paint job as seems prudent(thinking I will need a really tough base clear or single stage), add the numbers and loan it out every time I am asked.

Here are a few shots of the original gray.




Thank you in advance,
Mike G.

Offline athawk11

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Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2019, 10:38:27 AM »
Tailgate is an M38 Style.  By 1952, I would expect it to have the notches at the top edge to accommodate the spare tire carrier.  It might be an early reproductionUPDATE:  The tailgate has been bothering me all morning.  It just doesn't fit the norms, but I couldn't help but think there was another answer.  I finally found the reference I could have sworn I'd seen before...

The tailgates for the CJ-V35 Jeeps -- modified 3A's built for the U.S. Navy and Marines in 1950 -- were apparently a missing link in the transition to the notched flange. Bob Westerman's photo of the tailgate from CJV-35 10588 shows the two square cutouts for the spare tire carrier, but not the curved cutouts for the seat brackets. This is because the V35 didn't have a rear seat; it was designed to carry a radio in the back. It also has Willys stamped in the center. The tailgate in Bob's photo does have a few extra holes drilled by previous owners.

The full tailgate conversation can be seen here...   https://cj3b.info/Dating/DatingTailgates.html


The crossmember does have the tabs for a bottom mount radiator.

The steering gear box does not look like the original Ross box.

The engine block serial number looks like an “MB”.  Is it chain drive?  Take a picture of the timing cover and the casting number.

As you predicted, the starter isn’t right.  The 3As did have a floor foot button to actuate the starter, but this one doesn’t look right.  The starter might be right, but the linkage may have been modified.  Can you take a photo of the starter?

This looks like a fun project to follow.  Keep us updated on your progress.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 12:41:46 PM by athawk11 »
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline Bob W

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2019, 09:21:34 PM »
Often times Government contract CJ-3As (and other Jeeps) received "options" that were not available to the general public. Bottom mounted radiators came in two styles, standard and heavy duty cooling. The bottom mounted heavy duty cooling radiator had a thicker core than the side mounted radiator so that is what was probably original to a Navy CJ-3A, even when CJ-3As were being produced with side mounted radiators. The Navy CJ-3As also had rear bumperettes.
Bob W

Offline Bob W

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2019, 09:35:10 PM »
6.48 on the cylinder head is the compression ratio.

I feel like the tailgate is a reproduction.
Bob W

Offline 51USNCJ3A

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 11:03:04 PM »
Thank you athawk11 and Bob W. 

Here are some pictures of the casting numbers and other features of the engine.






Here is the starter from top and bottom, as well as the linkage that crosses over the transmission. Try not to be too jealous of my washer welded on for a gas pedal.





When I look closer, I can see that the steering gear is not stock.  Any ideas on where to find one of those?  Used I presume.

The tailgate.....  If it were easy, that article we both linked to would have had the answer.  I am quite familiar with aftermarket parts of today. I assembled a 1977 Bronco body from 100% repo stuff a couple winters ago.  This tailgate might be repo stuff from the '70's, not from any time recent.  What trips me up are the brackets spot welded to the inside.  Do they at least look like brackets that are known?  The fact that they are there, and have zero holes through the tailgate seems odd.  Why would aftermarket add those?  A mystery. 

I will share progress on the project page in the conversation I started over there when progress actually happens.  First, I have a corn crop that needs picking...

Mike G.

Offline athawk11

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Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2019, 10:56:03 AM »
Great photos.
 
That does look like the early 3A starter, but with a modified linkage.  Here is a link to more information…

http://www.cj3a.info/tech/starter.html

This is a photo showing the original point where the linkage penetrates the firewall.  (It’s the block with the two bolts above the transmission tunnel)



The engine block is an MB chain drive.  It would not be original to this 3A but is still very cool.

I must yield to Bob W that the tailgate is an early reproduction and not the tweener discussed on the other page link.  Upon further study, I would expect to see “dimples” where the footman loops would be installed.  There are no dimples on your tailgate.

The inner supports were an upgrade for the M38 configuration, as are the outer supports on each vertical edge of the tailgate.  This is speculation on my part, but I believe that MD Juan, in the early days, had limited ‘examples’ to copy from when they were firing up the reproduction sheet metal department.  One of those examples was probably a Willys M38.  Early reproduction tubs that were sold to replace Civilian CJ2As and CJ3As have many features that were found on the original M38, like removable firewall/ floor boards and glove boxes. 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 10:59:45 AM by athawk11 »
2-1949 CJ3As
1-1946 CJ2A

Offline Bob W

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2019, 08:43:05 PM »
The starter linkage looks like Wagon/Truck style.
Bob W

Offline 51USNCJ3A

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 10:21:07 PM »
Thamks again.

You are right about the dimples. I had not noticed that.  Bob W. Did the Navy 3A's have Willys on the tailgate?

Linkage will go, and the floor will be repaired.

Mike G.

Offline Bob W

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2019, 06:50:19 PM »
I'm not positive but I think they had Willys on the tailgate.
Bob W

Offline stony

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2019, 01:13:22 AM »
Yeah that starter linkage is off of a truck, so that probably came with the engine and bellhousing.  That is all supposed to be in the front of the firewall on a truck, with a spring loaded plunger inside. 
Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time.

Offline Mark W.

Re: Help me find all that isn't original to this 52 CJ3A
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2019, 12:55:34 AM »
Warn OD did not come to market until 1962.
Chug A Lug

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