Door measurement

[bretto]

I have in my possession, set of door frames that I thought were going to be useful on my M38.� After some research, I believe these frames are the early 3a frames.� I do realize that these are not fold-able as the M38's were but have read that the 3a frames were a suitable substitute.� The only measurement I was able to really say is a difference between these and the M38 is the overall height.� There is a difference of an inch, with the M38's being 1" taller at 37".� I might to weld in 1" of rod on each side and make them taller.� I'm wondering if anyone on this board has the earlier frames and could tape the overall height and see if they come in at about 36".� Another thought I have is that the bottoms may go longer at the bottoms of the M38 and not at the tops, so adding 1" at the tops could be the wrong way to go.� Or just leave them alone and use them as is.� Or maybe someone here wants to buy these?

As I have researched, the earlier frames had the diagonal handle/brace above the door handle and then below the handle on the later frames, which allowed for a larger window.


Here is a of the ones I have.� I did have to cut the hinge off the tops as they were mangled.



Here is one I found online that says its an early CJ3a.



Here is another pic of mine before the canvas was pulled off.� The rigid window frames are kinda cool.



Here is a M38 frame.

[Bob W]

A lot of measurements will be different just depending upon how these door frames have been bent over the years. I have early 3A, late 3A, aftermarket 3A, and M38 folding frames here. I can get some measurements tomorrow.

[bretto]

Thanks Bob, in fact yours is a pic I found on the G503 page, I'm sue you recognized it.

[Bob W]

These door frames are all slightly different, probably years of rough treatment. I tried to measure the frame, on some the canvas extends past the frame a lot. M38 and early 3A is 36-1/4", aftermarket is 36-3/4", 3A late is 37". I think they should all be the same. Maybe around 36-1/2" I will post a photo later.

[bretto]

I thought so.

My other dilemma is the previous owner yanked off the upper door mounts on windshield.  And I have no hinge on the doors to help me point where they should go.  If I had one or the other I could use them for emergence.  I will have to fab the mounts up but the problem is, I have no reference where they would go and from looking at pictures the mounts are at an angle in comparison to the window frame.  Common sense would tell me that they should point directly at the lower mount's hole in order to hang any door and have it swing properly.  Can anyone confirm this?  And possibly get me a measurement of where they mount.

I would suspect most door mounts and things of this nature have to be somewhat tailored after all is set in place  The 3/8 rod these are built from is just of the verge of being inadequate for structure but on the other side, just small enough to allow fudging if needed.

[athawk11]

Bretto,

I don�t know if this helps at all�I measured my M38 door in the same approximate location in Bob�s photo.  I got 36 3/8�. 

You can probably fab up a couple door sockets.  Some thick wall tubing, some flat stock and a couple minutes with your welder is all you need.  I�m guessing the gauge to be 10g�.or maybe 3/32� steel.

Here is a close-up of the passenger side socket�





This measurement is from the top of  the horizontal tube where the wiper motors mount�





Tim

[Bob W]

I forgot to mention that even left side to right side on the same pair of frames is a different measurement.

[bretto]

Thanks gents.  The angles of the mounts is what is going to kill me.  Does it appear that they point right at the lower sockets?
Same issue on the door pins.  I'm wondering if they come straight out from the doors or are they clocked inward a bit.

[bretto]

This is what I mean by is the hinge pin in line or * a bit inward.

[athawk11]

Mine seem to pitch inward, but I don't know if this is from abuse or bending to achieve a custom fit.  Maybe Bob can confirm...

[Bob W]

All my upper hinge pins are relatively parallel to the door frame as seen in the upper example here..

[1955CJ-5]

The upper hinge on my repro door frames are also parallel with the frame..I did have to tweak the upper hinge a bit so the door frame did not rub against the top frame. Both doors needed a small adjustment..

Do you have the top frame yet?

[bretto]

Yep I have a top and side curtains on mine.  The top on a M38 is a totally different set up compared to the 3A.
Thanks for all the reference pictures.  Can one of you confirm that the upper hinge point aims directly at the lower?
You guys rock.
Once I get all this knocked out, I plan on making another set of frames from scratch just to have 2 then making my own canvas covers.  The door frame set I got had some old covers with the metal window rings.  Do you guys think there is any value in those?  I don't plan on using them, I just plan on sewing in windows like the rest of my coverings.
Brett

[1955CJ-5]

This is not the greatest picture.

I'd say the upper and lower hinge points are parallel, but not perfectly aligned...A rod set in one would not plug directly into the other...

Does this help? Tough to get a really informative picture!

[Bob W]

Those metal window frames do have value!!! They were used on CJ-2A, early CJ-3A and CJ-V35/U.