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Offline Gunslinger

Transmission removal tips
« on: August 08, 2014, 04:34:28 PM »
Getting ready to start thinking about pulling my tranny, I've got a horrible noise related to the clutch/ throw out bearing that I need to address, and I want an overdrive installed as well.

My question is this, whats the best way to pull the darn thing, seperate it at the rear of the bell housing and have to deal with inserting the forks after the install, or seperate the bell  housing from the engine, and be able to install the forks with the bell housing as a unit.

Need your thoughts.
Todd
Climbs trees, hides in the long grass, hangs out with wet dogs...

Offline athawk11

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Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 06:48:30 PM »
Gun,

If your primary repairs are in the clutch area, then separating the bell housing from the engine is the most effective approach.� The only issues are access and the weight of the bell housing, transmission and TC as an assembly.

With the tub on...

-Remove drive shafts and stick shift covers.
-Support the drive train assembly with a jack.
-Loosen the crossmember enough to allow the drivetrain to slant downward. (You might have to use longer bolts on your crossmember to get it to drop low enough to accomplish the next step.)
- Loosen set screw, that holds the pin, that the TC shift arms pivot on.� Pull the pin and remove the shift levers.
-Use another jack or blocking to support the rear of the engine.�
-Remove the starter, then the bell housing bolts.
-Slide the drive train assembly off the engine.� You may have to wiggle, tip, drop, push, raise, pry, shift, pull, twist the assembly while separating. ;). Keep it in alignment with the engine to avoid bending the transmission input shaft.�

Make repairs,� then reassemble in the opposite order as described above.

I'm having issues with my newly installed clutch system.� I have the advantage of no tub, so I was able to support the weight of this assembly with straps hanging from my rafters.

There may be a step or two I may have forgot to list.� Hopefully others will check my accuracy.

Good luck.

Tim
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 06:50:08 PM by athawk11 »
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Offline Dutch_Jeeper

Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 05:42:59 PM »
So i'm gonna bump this thread instead of starting a new one with the same question. I decided to just go for it and replace the clutch myself.

Found this handy link: http://www.jeep42.net/brico_dep_boites_uk.html
convincing me I can pull it off with just jackstands, the 3 jacks, at least 1 to support the back of the engine, perhaps one to lift the engine on the front for some extra room and the other to support, manouvre and lower the transmission, + a trolly to roll it from underneath the Jeep.

However what i cannot find is what is connected to the transmission that needs to be detached before lowering and seperating it from the engine?

-Took a peek under the Jeep and the first thing I noticed is that the clutch pedal assembly is supported on the transmission!? Is it a simple matter of detaching it transmission side and then leave it?

-Where does the speedometer cable attach? Could'nt see where it went exactly, do you take it off before lowering the t-case or can you get to it once you tilted the engine and transmission before seperating it from the engine

-Whats the easy way to get to the top 2 bolts on the back of the engine holding the bellhouse!? I think i can just get a wrench in between the engine and the firewall, but i doubt there's enough space to get them out entirely, I read somewhere you can also get to them via the gaspedal hole? Or is it possible to reach them from underneath with a flexible joint and a ratchet once the transmission is lowered a bit?

-What about the gear sticks, need to take them of, depending on how high i can lift the Jeep, or should there be enough room once the covers ae of to pull it back and lower it?

Anything else connected/attached to the transmission i need to look out for befor i can lower and detach it (apart from the starter)?

Many thanks in advance
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 01:19:16 AM by Dutch_Jeeper »
Jeeping - The art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly going nowhere and taking all day to do it

Offline Ryan_M

Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2015, 08:47:16 PM »
Answers in bold.

-Took a peek under the Jeep and the first thing I noticed is that the brake pedal assembly is supported on the transmission!? Is it a simple matter of detaching it transmission side and then leave it?

The brake pedal shouldn't be supported by the transmission but the clutch tube is. I think it would be easier to remove the bracket that holds it to the frame and get the whole assembly out of the way.

-Where does the speedometer cable attach? Could'nt see where it went exactly, do you take it off before lowering the t-case or can you get to it once you tilted the engine and transmission before seperating it from the engine

It screws in near the top rear of the transfer case. You should be able to unscrew it and get it out of the way before you start doing anything with the engine, trans, and TC

-Whats the easy way to get to the top 2 bolts on the back of the engine holding the bellhouse!? I think i can just get a wrench in between the engine and the firewall, but i doubt there's enough space to get them out entirely, I read somewhere you can also get to them via the gaspedal hole? Or is it possible to reach them from underneath with a flexible joint and a ratchet once the transmission is lowered a bit?

You can add longer bolts to where the transmission cross member attaches to the frame and then let the those bolts out and lower the crossmember some. This will tilt the engine/trans/TC down and should give you more access to those top bellhousing bolts. Be aware of exhaust, fuel lines, hoses, throttle linkages etc. Depending on how yours is rigged up you may need to disconnect some of those things. You may also need to loosen the motor mounts.

-What about the gear sticks, need to take them of, depending on how high i can lift the Jeep, or should there be enough room once the covers ae of to pull it back and lower it?

Depends on how high you can get the Jeep up in the air. You'll likely at least need to remove the transmission tower as that's the tallest one. Undo the bolts and pull it right off. Your floor was cut to accommodate the low gear apparatus so you may be able to sneak the TC levers through there without taking them off.

Anything else connected/attached to the transmission i need to look out for befor i can lower and detach it (apart from the starter)?

This may seem obvious but: driveshafts, hand brake cable, engine stay cable

I'm sure others will chime in with additional things that I missed.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 08:52:45 PM by Ryan_M »
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Offline Dutch_Jeeper

Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 01:45:46 AM »
Thank you very much sir,

I already took the manifolds off because of the crack, so any fuel/cable linkages there should not be in the way, same for the exhaust.

This was exactly what i needed, was looking for a good how to but could'nt find one. I will document as i go and post it here once i completed it.

Jeeping - The art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly going nowhere and taking all day to do it

Offline Dutch_Jeeper

Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2015, 06:09:04 AM »
So i'm planning to start on the clutch this week, i was looking at some pictures and a thought struck me.

It looks a lot easier to unbolt the transfercase from the bellhousing and then slide it back!? That way you do not initially need to tilt the engine that far (if at all), the hole in the bellhousing looks big enough to tilt just the transmisson slightly and leave enough room for the outputshaft once it backed off far enough to clear the clutchplate minimizing the risk of putting to much weight on the outputshaft when tilting the engine and transmission as a unit to get it off!?

Once the transmission is out of the way acces to undo and take of the bellhousing should be a whole lot easier.

Only question is, can you install the fork through the inspection hole? If so i could install carrier and bearing on the output shaft, put the bellhousing on the engine and then the transmission back on. Only thing left would be to install the fork through the inspection hole?

any thoughts on this approach?
Jeeping - The art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly going nowhere and taking all day to do it

Offline athawk11

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Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 02:46:22 PM »
Your listed approach is very similar to what I did when installing a sealed bearing on the T-90.  While taken apart, I went ahead and installed a new clutch disc and throw out bearing.

The other approach is to pull the engine.

If you pull the transfer and tranny, this technique worked like a champ for the reinstallation of the fork�



If you pull the engine, the toughest issue for me was accessing the flywheel bolts at the top.  There is a lot to disassemble this way, but many think it�s easier to do this if a clutch replacement is all you�re planning.


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Offline macrisel

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Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2015, 10:48:30 AM »

Randy that has to be the best idea to install the fork I have seen!  Do you just cut the wire after you get it installed?  I wish I had thought that when I wrestled my fork in....

Dutch,
The top two bolts can be reached after you drop the rear of the transmission slightly.  I use every extension bar I have with a wobble joint on the end and is measures around 2 feet.  This will get the ratchet back around the driveshaft with room to work.

If you happen to have access to a car lift, that will make the process much easier also.  Using a tilting transmission jack make removal/installation much nicer.  I removed my trans/t-case several different ways and would rank the methods from easiest to hardest:

1.  Tub removed install the trans/t-case from above with a cherry picker.  This is by FAR the easiest, quickest way to work on the transmission/t-case but involves a lot of tear down to get to this point.

2.  Use a car lift and transmission jack and remove the trans/t-case from below.  There is a lot less tear down with this method, but more expensive tools involved (ie car lift and transmission jack).  Great for when you jeep is done and you have to turn around and do transmission work... ::)

3.  Remove/install the motor and transmission from the front as one unit with a cherry picker.  More tear down than just removing the transmission, but I feel it is easier to work from above than below.  It is also easier to bolt the engine, trans and t-case together outside the jeep than underneath it.

4.  Put the front of the jeep on jack stands and drop the trans/t-case from below while leaving the engine in.  Cheapest method as you only need hand tools and a floor jack and also the least amount of tear down involved.  Hardest method in that you are on your back wrestling a trans/t-case in and out trying to line up input shafts, bolt holes, etc with sweat dripping in your eyes and blood on your tools..(there will be both..)

Whatever method you use, be safe and enjoy the finished product!

Offline Dutch_Jeeper

Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2015, 12:34:04 PM »
Thanks, it is out took me about 2,5 hours on my own  ;D

Have to be honoust and say the modification made to the tunnel for the extra gearbox made it a walk in the park. Almost, well it will be next time  ;D because i thought i had enough room for the shift levers. So after i found i had not and removed them i had enough space to pull the transmission back and free off the clutch plate. Had to tilt it no more then perhaps 2 inches max to get enough clearance to pull the shaft free from the bellhousing.

I did it on the floor, front tires blocked, back of the car on jackstands as high as i thought safe and, small jack under the oilpan and a big one under the transmission. I could almost pull it straight back and lower it straight down. Also i bought a mechanic trolly to roll around under the car, should have bought one ages ago  :)



As you can see in the picture above, the pivot point for the extra gearbox needed extra space, pulling it straight back it hovers just above the tunnel, so i had to push forward and tilt a bit. Expanding the cut it should be possible to jack straight up without any clearance issues. I marked how much i need to expand it, There's already a cut made and a cover fabricated so i have no problem making it bigger, and neater then it is now plus a new cover for the bigger hole.



I still have to take the bellhouse off though, and offcourse put it all back together. However, if i find the right balance for the transmission on the jack, which because of the extra gearbox should be right behind the crossmember and the expanded hole in the tunnel, i think it will not be to hard, just need to persist and take it slow.



Jeeping - The art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly going nowhere and taking all day to do it

Offline athawk11

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Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2015, 09:35:01 PM »
Nice work Dutchman.

Mark,  I leave both ends of the twisted wire long enough to be outside the access port.  Once the fork is in position, I just untwist the wire, then pull it out.  Works well.  Push the throw out forward with one hand.  Feed fork with the other.

Tim
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Offline bretto

Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2015, 11:01:29 PM »
What in the world is that extra gearbox?

Offline Dutch_Jeeper

Re: Transmission removal tips
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2015, 06:41:42 AM »
@Bretto

It's a "crawl box" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSlBImo9AEU&feature=youtu.be

More info in my intro topic, but in short the Jeep was used with a V8 powered snowplough, the crawl gear was to reduce the speed enough the plough had enough time to throw away the snow. Should come in handy offroad. also� :)

There's no markings on the box, but it is an "official" Jeep accessory, no adapter plates or weird fabrications. Had to pick up some parts at a specialist today who knew the Jeep and told me more about it. Bassically there's only 2 gears� for extra reduction, it can be used 2x4 or 4x4 in either high or low.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 05:18:37 PM by Dutch_Jeeper »
Jeeping - The art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly going nowhere and taking all day to do it