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Author Topic: Why Willys, why?  (Read 10232 times)

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Offline athawk11

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2013, 09:05:42 AM »
Nate,
There is one anomaly.� Stony...Early 49...cut edge???

I suppose this ring may not be original to his Willys.� As we all know,� it is very unusual to find a 100% correct and original Willys these days.� A lot happens in 60+ years.

I did find my spare '48.� It is a bent ring.

I still think we need more folks to chime in before we make this conclusion.

Tim

From a '48 2A tub...

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Offline stony

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2013, 10:51:54 AM »
Quote
It must be a leftover from the 2As then. It appears only the 49 3As have them. Am I safe to say this? The data we have points to this.

Nope LOL ;)� My 1949 #11159 has cut edges, Calvin's 1949 #12118 has folded edges.� �Sounds like they had a bin full of mixed parts and just grabbed one and bolted it on.� I am pretty sure mine has never been changed or taken off for that matter, and would have to assume that if it was the original was lost, odds are against that.  Oh BTW, I have had it since 1974, so it was 'only 25 years old' when I got it :D so pretty sure it is the original part..
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 11:20:02 AM by stonyloam »
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Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time”.

Offline stony

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2013, 12:13:47 PM »
OK went to , my parts book.  There are two "RING transfer shift lever grommet" parts numbers listed
663490 up to sn. 38221, assuming that is the one with bent edges.
663793 after sn. 38221 and that number supersedes as a replacement.

I still think mine is original, but a seed of doubt has been planted ;)

That would take it up to about early 1950 right?  Yeah, we need to get more input from other folks.  BTW mine has the Oaks (flat top) air cleaner too  :D.


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Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time”.

Offline athawk11

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2013, 05:39:06 PM »
Okay Stony, that begins to make sense.�

Scenario..It's 1958.� PO accidentally tears his shift boot while loading his garden tools into the Willys. Throws out the old one.� A month later, he finally has a chance to get into town.� Heads down to the Kaiser Jeep dealer to pick up a new one.� �

The new style ring comes with the new boot.� Good thing too.� He accidentally threw the original style away with the torn boot.

I'm just making a point.� Just when you think you have your Willys figured out, something throws you a change up.

Heck, I'm just as guilty.� I thought my GPW engine was original when I first got the Willys. ;D ;)

Tim
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Offline stony

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2013, 08:08:54 PM »
Yeah I am beginning to think that is the case.� It is looks like they did not even make the cut edge rings until 1950, so it is certainly plausible (even likely) that it is a replacement.� �So for a 100% correct it probably is #38221 is the cutoff for the "bent edge" ring.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 08:10:03 PM by stonyloam »
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Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time”.

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2013, 10:31:42 PM »
So, do the bent edge rings have this weird little star?

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1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline stony

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2013, 10:58:49 PM »
The first photo in this thread shows one with it.
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Terry
1949 CJ3A 11159 body 11225 engine 11140
On preservation vs. restoration:Roscoe Lee Brown "the Cowboys" when he met the whores on the trail:"Well, I have the inclination, but not the time”.

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2013, 11:25:54 PM »
Quote
The first photo in this thread shows one with it.

Sure enough...and now I remember noticing it...it's been a whole day after all....
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1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline Bob W

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 02:34:27 PM »
Okay, I finally did some research on those shift boot rings. CJ-2As after serial number CJ-2A 38221 used part number 664378 (before serial #38221 2As were column shift). 664378 has the folded sides. This part continued to be used throughout CJ-2A production and into CJ-3A production.

In September of 1949 part number 649890 was released for production on Pickups and Wagons. This is the ring with cut sides. During this time period Willys was trying to consolidate parts across their vehicle lines, so that's probably why this new ring was now installed on CJs too.

Since the two different rings were fully interchangeable (on CJs) both types could have found their way onto 3As for a while, bracketing the actual change point.

The Parts Listings agree with what we are seeing in the field on survivors. The 1949 and earlier listings have part #664378 and the 1950 and later listings show part #649890 for CJs.

Thanks to Keith Buckley, Sean Collins and Mike Myers for their help, and all the people who supplied information from surviving vehicles.

More data from the field is always welcome!
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Bob W

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2013, 04:13:25 PM »
My 3A is a 1950 and I got this;

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Offline Bob W

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2013, 04:25:35 PM »
Can you guys with the 1950 3As include your vehicle serial numbers too?

Thanks!
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Bob W

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2013, 07:42:09 PM »
Cj3A 56908
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Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 08:25:23 PM »
1951...15241..cut retainer...
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1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline garage gnome

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2013, 08:28:21 PM »
Uh oh... Bob is on a mission. Watch out!

Here is something to think about too. The uncut retainer will not work with an OD unless modified.
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Nate in Western MA 1953 3A #3268, The Jalopy, '47 2A Wheelin' rig, '49 3A, #37071, unmolested, bone stock named Ted

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: Why Willys, why?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2013, 08:57:57 PM »
I think I've stumbled upon the reason for the little star/asterisk that is stamped into the rings...

The holes are about 5/16" further apart in the rear of the ring than in the front...

The star� is on the narrow end of the ring, so the star goes forward.

Imagine putting these together on an assembly line and having to try the ring six different ways before it would fit...the star eliminates the guess work...
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 08:58:45 PM by 1955CJ-5 »
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1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...
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