Front tranny leak

[bretto]

The replacement bearing is still in transit but yes, I plan on pulling the internal side seal of the bearing.  Having never worked on another T90, I have no experience to compare how my bearing's fitment is to another but it seems like it came off fairly easily.  After removing the smaller snap ring, I pulled out the shaft and bearing barely enough that the larger snap ring was off the case housing and put some pieces of a older snap ring behind it as spacer then tapped the end of input shaft.  It didn't take too much effort at all to get it off.  My only concern is,  at one point I think the shaft may have come out it to far and dropped one of the roller bearings out.  It still rotates smoothly after I temporarily put the front bearing back in to hold it all together till the replacement comes..  I'll have to pull the shift tower and take a look to see if there is is enough movement to allow that to happen and then fish the bottom of the case.  Then I need to come up with a way to plug the drain back hole in the front of the case.  Some suggest to tap a thead and plug it, another was to just silicone it over, which I don't think is a good idea.  I am thinking a binder post and screw with some loc-tite and sealant..  That is if there is enough clearance inside the case that nothing will rotate into it.
Regarding the floor Calvin, as I was doing the removal, I had wondered how Carl and you had removed your unit.  When I started, I thought I could probably just send the strap around the assemble thru the hole that the tranny cover panel provides.  Then I thought, no it's just all around easier to remove the whole floor panel and it's there to remove.  It really helps with access to the upper bell housing bolts and the realignment when you go to put the assembly back in.

[Carls_jeep]

I don't think the shaft can come out far enough to drop any of the needle bearings. Installing the bearing may present a problem but if you carefully tap the bearing around the inner race it should go on. The last part to get it on far enough to put the snap ring on the input shaft will be the hardest and may require you having someone pull the input shaft out as you tap the bearing on.

Just don't get in a hurry.

[bretto]

Ya, no hurries.  I took a look at it this morning and yes, the shaft cant come out far enough release any needle bearings and it looks like there will be enough room for a binder post to seal the drain hole.

[RICKG]

Well, I think I might be getting too good at dropping the gear boxes. �

Brett, you dont want to get TOO good at it!!

[bretto]

I received my bearing in the mail 2 days ago. �It looks to be a NOS SKF bearing, made in the USA, yeah.
I was trying to figure out the best way to plug the return drain hole.  I ditched the binder post and screw idea in favor of tapping and plugging it. �Using what I had available to me(no NPT tap), I ran a standard 3/8-16 nc tap about 2/3rd the way in the hole. �This way, the plug runs out of threads and can't go any further to make its way into the box. �I think if you were to run a standard tap all the way through, some threadlock would keep it in place just fine but the way I did it is a guarantee. �I plan on putting some threadlock on to keep it in place and then seal over it as well as you would the heads of the bolts for the oil collector. �For the plug, to save a trip to the store to buy a real plug and since I like to make my own stuff, I made it from a bolt and cut the slot with a hacksaw. �Kind of a backwood approach but it will work just fine.

[Carls_jeep]

Well done friend. The only thing that bothers me is with the drain hole plugged if the bearing seal leaks it will be trapped in the front bearing retainer housing. The bearing seal will hold grease in and dirt out but I'm not sure it will hold tranny oil in. Perhaps a small hole in the plug would allow any oil to return to the tranny.

So far my tranny front felt seal hasn't lleaked but that's with only about 4500 miles on it's rebuild.

I hope your fix works for you.

[bretto]

Time will tell.  Just going off other people's lead in doing this and they all plug the hole.  I figure it should slow the flow if anything and stop the puddles I have been getting.

[bretto]

After 3 days of test driving it, 0 leaks (well this leak, I have a few other minor ones). �At this time before, It would of leaked by now. �Hopefully it will hold up. �Sad thing is, I have the whole thing ripped apart again but for other issues. �I'm sure Carl and Calvin might like to read.
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/topic26423_post232457.html#232457

[calvinhunt]

I'm sure Carl and Calvin might like to read.
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/topic26423_post232457.html#232457

Brett, I read every word. �Looks like you're on top of the problem. �You posted the above at 9 this morning. �I tried to call you at 10. I guess you were already on your way to Grandma's house for turkey dinner. About the only thing I could add to what you have already figured out and to what Carl has said about the location of NOS parts is that I got all my NOS gears, shafts, etc., from Army Jeep Parts, Inc in PA. 215-269-5014 www.armyjeepparts.com �That is also where I got the shims in different thicknesses for setting the proper end play of the output shaft. �The spacers go just forward of the rear bearing spacer against the output shaft (main shaft). �The person who overhauls transmissions at Army Jeep Parts is George. �He was very helpful and answered a lot of questions I had about my transmission overhaul. I have a modified rear bearing needed to set up the end play for the output shaft when using the shims if you'd like to borrow it. �

Here are a couple of pics that may interest you. �Upon investigation I found that the repro plates were worn prematurely by the repro synchro sleeve that had been poorly machined leaving a very rough surface to slide against.  The repro synchro springs (left) were heavier and stronger than the NOS (right) which put more outward pressure on the plates.  




The plates on the right have just 1000 miles on them since being installed at overhaul. �The plates on the left are the old ones that came out of the high-mileage tranny when I overhauled it. �It was at this point that I decided I would only reinstall NOS parts at that time. �That's when I contacted Army Jeep Parts as recommended by another CJ-3A member. �And that's when I learned that quality parts at any cost are better than the readily available repro parts, whether they come from a source like Novak or NOS.



Good luck on you FINAL reassembly of your transmission.

[bretto]

Calvin,
Sorry to miss your call. �
I am surprised to see pictures of the plates that look pretty much like mine. �Or maybe I should be saying not surprised. �I have no history of the transmission but I didnt replace my sleeve or hub, just the plates and spring and they got chewed up. �As I say in the other page, I placed in my old plates and springs in the hub and sleeve assembly and it moves smooth as can be.
I plan on placing my order with AJP today for parts.
I appreciate the offer on the setup bearing but mine comes off without too much difficulty if I need to make any adjustments. �Do you know the spec on what the end play is supposed to be?
Thanks �

[Carls_jeep]

Hi bretto, I have been following your post on CJ2 as you know. I think it would be wise to replace the sliding collar or possibly the entire synchro assembly. All the foreign made tranny parts have issues and I consider them to be scrap.

I think the end play or clearance between the input shaft and output shaft is .015". I think I set mine at .010" but anything less than that may cause problems. You need to have them close so after some wear it won't start jumping out of second gear while decelerating, especially going downhill.

You may want to use Calvin's test bearing because it comes off easy to change the shims if needed. If you have to pull the output shaft out to change the shims the needle bearings may fall out of the input shaft. Being able to easily slide the bearing off to change shims is real handy. Plus, you have to clamp the bearing against the rear of the case to check the end play with a dial indicator so the shaft has to slide in the bearing.

Depending on the class of bearing all ball bearings have some movement between the outer and inner race. The bearings we use are a low class loose fit and with the bearing not sliding easily on the shaft you may only measure the slop in the races and balls, not the end play. Also, when your measuring the end play you have to have the front bearing retainer bolted on to keep the input shaft from moving.

[calvinhunt]

According to George and Army Jeep Parts, the end play is supposed to be .012 to .016. �Often you get close to that without any shims. �Sometimes a tranny overhauled with all new parts will still jump out of 2nd gear on deceleration because unknowingly the end play was too great--probably more than .030. �I learned this more than 40 years ago when I had my first CJ-5. �It was only 6 years old with less than 40,000 miles and it jumped out of 2nd on deceleration. �At that time, the local Jeep dealer sold .030 inch stainless steel shims that were horseshoe shaped with at break-off tab for installation. �Once slid into place at the aft end of the output shaft, the open ends of the horseshoe would be tapped closer together to keep it in place and the installation tab broken off. �Before I found the CJ-3A page I was asking about it on the 2A page. �A couple of old-times remembered them. �Carl Walck has never heard of them. �

[bretto]

Thanks guys.
Through my searching, I have been told that finding NOS blocking rings are probably as rare as finding a good roll of flight line.  Though I found that the guys at Novak and AJP stand by the products that they sell and say they are quality replacements.  I have however stumbled across a US made, NORS 640391 synchro unit delivered to my porch for less than if I were to just only buy the rings, plates and springs alone.
I will have to look at my old rear bearing so see how it measures up and maybe hone it out to a slip fit.  In the past when doing axle set ups, I know how nice it is to have setup bearings.  If I come to find I need your bearing Calvin, I will let you know.
I actually did come across an article with pics, that someone had found split shim on their output shaft. Don't ask to remember where that was but if I happen to come across it again, I'll share.

[calvinhunt]

Bretto,
  It's fun to follow your progress.  You work so fast and find so much interesting stuff it's truly entertaining and gratifying--such stuff as the NORS synchro unit and the article about the split shim.  

  It doesn't take much to hone out the old rear bearing to a slip fit.  

  Interesting about the article where someone found the split shim on the output shaft.  There's got to be some still out there.  I wasn't the only one to install it.  Sure was a great way to fix a common problem.  Don't know why they stopped making them.  I wish I would have purchased a hundred of them when they were available.  

[bretto]

I got to thinking about the setting of the clearance of the 2 shafts or 'endplay'.  My thinking when someone says endplay, they are talking about a tolerance that allows a set floating movement.  Right?  In this case, it's setting a solid spacing.  Or am I way off?  

Also, in my thinking , you shoul be able to check and set this spacing with a bare (no, 2nd gear, synchro unit, &  1/rev gear) main output shaft.  Might be easier this way to let you see what all that is going on and nothing to interfere the movement of the shaft into the input, if any.  And I could do it while waiting for parts to arrive.  I can't imagine there will be much or any adjustment at all to make.  If you start moving the shaft in too much, you can start to mess with the mesh of 2nd gear to the counter cluster shaft.  But if it takes too much, you probly better start replacing parts.

I have honed out my old bearing so it ready for use in the set up.  Any tips on holding the bearing and adapter to the housing other then mating the tranny to the transfer case?