Starter types

[garage gnome]

The other post about starters got me wondering. What dictated the type of starter that a 3A got? My '49 has the mechanical linkage, my '53 is key start (yes that is original, no holes in body for other types) or I have seen some that are just push buttons. Was it an option to get either type? I haven't seen any other key start flatties either. I have a junk 3b and that was just the push button. I would have thought that would be.

[rocketeer]

The early CJ3A's used two different, but similar, lever actuated starters. In 1952 Willys redesigned a few things which included the block with a different rear flange, a new key actuated closed nose starter, and a new bell housing. Those are the only factory Willys starters for a CJ3A. When Willys changed to the key actuated starter, they also changed flywheels from a 124 tooth to a 129 tooth ring gear.

http://www.cj3a.info/cj3a/date3a.htm

Larry

[athawk11]

I have always wondered the same thing.  My Willys is far from original.  3A #36662 built in 1949.   It came to me with a very nice GPW engine that had the serial numbers ground off.  I'm pretty sure it was a surplus engine.  It's date code is November 1944.

The starter is an Autolite model # MZ4113.  It may be original to the engine, but I'm not sure.  I have a starter solenoid, key start, and the fire wall never had the holes for a foot start.  Does this add up?  Can anyone shed some light on how this all fits?

Tim

[rocketeer]

Could be a couple of reasons. A repro tub, or it's actually a CJ2A. Where's the key mounted on the dash? How long is the rear inner wheel housing? WWII engines and their starter motors are a totally different horse from CJs.

Larry

[athawk11]

Okay,
my interest has been peaked. �Hopefully, Larry, Gunslinger, Tom, Bill, Bob, Calvin, Carl, GG, Matto, or any other smart Jeep folks can solve this mistery.

I'll include some reference photos.

The Willys is 1949 #36662. �It has it's original data plate.


I cleaned it up and put it back on.



The original color, including the windshield was, I believe, Pasture Green. �
In this photo, you can see the green, and the firewall with no hole for a foot start. �Also, no indication that the hole was welded shut. � The photo shows the horrible condition the tub was in. �So, with the data plate, the original color, and the condition, I believe the tub is an original 3A. The frame also has offset motor mounts that you find on a 3A.


Here is a shot that shows the dash key hole location...just to the right of the steering column area.


Gpw Engine. �Here you can see the MZ4113 starter.



So,
With a probable, original, 3A tub with no hole for a foot start, (if it was welded, the guy was a genius with a welder)
a GPW engine with a MZ4113 starter that is probably original to the engine,
a key start and a starter solenoid,

what is the likely, or unlikely historical path for this old Willys? �I really have no clue, but would like some facts, or opinions.

All indications say, I should have a hole for the foot start switch.

Thanks,

Tim

[garage gnome]

MBs and GPWs have a dash board button to start them. This would explain why yours is key start. Someone could easily add a solenoid for the starter activated by the key.

This still doesn't explain why your's has no foot starter, either for the mechanical type or foot push button type.

[F Bill]

MBs and GPWs have a dash board button to start them. This would explain why yours is key start. Someone could easily add a solenoid for the starter activated by the key.

This still doesn't explain why your's has no foot starter, either for the mechanical type or foot push button type.

My GPW's were both foot start, with a switch that bolted to the firewall in a place you barely could reach it with your toe if your heel was on the gas.  

The foot start was a simple contact switch with a spring loaded contact that your foot pushed down to connect the starter wire  with the battery wire. It was far from reliable over the years as the contacts would arc and corrode if you didn't give it a solid quick push.  It is very easy to take a Ford style starter solenoid and hook those two wires up to it, then have a switched small hot wire to actuate it. And the Ford solenoids were plentiful and easy to find, so many, many jeeps were upgraded to key start.

Over the years so many jeeps were upgraded with a solenoid that buying an old jeep without a solenoid is unusual.

[Bob W]

....... and the fire wall never had the holes for a foot start.

Do you have any more "before" photos of the firewall? The hole location is not visible in any of the photos posted.

[Bob W]

Over the years so many jeeps were upgraded with a solenoid that buying an old jeep without a solenoid is unusual.

I really agree with that! I'd say that buying an old Jeep with the original engine is also unusual. The 40's and 50's metal technology wasn't what it is today, many engines were worn out by 30K or so miles and got swapped around.

[rocketeer]

To help pinpoint the location:





Larry

[athawk11]

Hey GG,

Sorry to highjack your post like this.

I'm a bit embarrased. �I have literally been over every inch of this thing. �You would think I might have wondered what this was for:




I have seen foot start Willys Jeeps in photos and on You Tube, etc... and just never remember the push start to be up that high. �Big feet already make gas and brake pedal manipulation an interesting feat. �That foot start position had to be that much more of a challenge.

I am sorry I wasted your time. �I am also sorry to be the only Jack@ss in the room.

Tim

[rocketeer]

Aw shucks, no sweat, happens to us all at one time or another.

Larry