Uncooperative 3rd gear

[aboyandhisdog]

Interesting stuff here.  So, if a guy was looking to buy an overdrive, what would be the best one to buy? 
Is it enough to just verify it has the new-style snap ring? 
Is it true that an overdrive is not to be used in low range?
Oilly, did you ever hear if Jeff's OD that failed was replaced (warranty), or is he just SOL?
Is Herm or Advanced Adaptors standing behind these things?

[Ryan_M]

Interesting stuff here.� So, if a guy was looking to buy an overdrive, what would be the best one to buy?�
Is it enough to just verify it has the new-style snap ring?�
Is it true that an overdrive is not to be used in low range?
Oilly, did you ever hear if Jeff's OD that failed was replaced (warranty), or is he just SOL?
Is Herm or Advanced Adaptors standing behind these things?

I would, without question, go with Advanced if I were to buy another one. I will not buy from Herm again. Opinions vary but my experience with him has not been good.

I use mine a lot in 4Lo which allegedly causes more wear but I don't believe that has anything to do with the recent issues I've had - snap ring or otherwise.

[1955CJ-5]

I agree with Ryan.

Too many bad experiences with Herm.

I bought two overdrives from him, one that went back for replacement, and a set of transfer case gears that arrived chipped because of poor packing.

[Oilleaker1]

Advance Adaptors bought all the old Warn tooling and rights to make the Saturn of today. They also have a very expensive gear CNC machine for making new gears. I talked with a pleasant fellow who has been with them from the get go. He advised me to not use it 4 wheeling and said it causes pre-mature wear. I think if you are shifting it normally and not rock crawling and jamming gears, it would be fine. I'm very disappointed with those snap rings that have the holes in the ends. Do not use them!!!!!! send it back for the newer , larger one. Walcks, Kaiser Willys, and Advanced adaptors all sell the Saturn. Buy a new one and torque it on correctly, have as little mainshaft endfloat in your tranny as possible, and keep it extremely clean and full of oil. I'm pretty sure Jeff will not get much help with his. They get off the hook when you install it and not them. Herm is overconfident and that's all I'm saying. If you have a planetary re-built. Install the large snap ring over the ends of the roller pins. They can and do work out and bang! bad things happen. If you find a used one, you most likely will end up with the same, or more $ than a new one in it. Like trannys, any wear, replace it. The safety fluted snap ring-----is a gamble at best. I'm paranoid about it. Don't like the design. Oilly

[Oilleaker1]

Ryan, in your posted photo of the loose snap ring, I see the larger snap ring that holds the rollers-----good. But, on my warn, the roller bearing and caged needles stay with the inner shaft and slide out of the planetary. Did yours get metal lodged in between?

[Ryan_M]

Ryan, in your posted photo of the loose snap ring, I see the larger snap ring that holds the rollers-----good. But, on my warn, the roller bearing and caged needles stay with the inner shaft and slide out of the planetary. Did yours get metal lodged in between?

I really have no idea. I'm ruling out nothing at this point.

[Oilleaker1]

The metal in there will spin out centrifugally and lodge inside the planetary . You should pull the torqued on assembly and wash it out. Mine had chunks in it. If they get between the gears, they can ---------well, ------------

[Ryan_M]

Where did the chunks of metal in yours come from?

[Oilleaker1]

I bought mine used and the thrust washer below the funky lock tab and snap ring was in 3 pieces. "Herm" fixed it. No one washed it though. lots of bad stuff in there but all is well now. I washed it. The metal in your picture really bothered me next to the crappy snap ring. That's why I wondered if it got between the outside of the needle bearing cage and the machined hole it fits into. Oilly

[Ryan_M]

Not that any metal is good but it looks "chunkier" in the pic than it really was. It was more like the consistency of brass flakes we've all seen in transmission oil - just a heavier mix. Rub it between your fingers and I doubt you could tell anything was even there.�

I did scrape/scoop as much out as I could but I did not pull the unit and wash it. Now I'm thinking I should have.

[Oilleaker1]

Steel chunks get smashed into the bearing races, while brass and softer stuff ends up at the drain plug. All that crap shortens the life of your nice build. Your message that the brand new snap ring has come out did little to console my feelings. I was thinking of another OD myself, but now am hesitant. They need to make one better that will fit through the planetarys, and have more contact with the snap ring groove. A new improved snap ring. I proved to myself you can't get the right sized round internal on in there without damaging the new snap ring.

[Oilleaker1]

I mentioned over at East Coast Willys that advance Adaptors needs to come up with a new snap ring that engauges more of the snap ring groove, but still fits through the planetary gears. Even the new upgraded one or "batch" has failed. In working on various applications, I've run into wire type retainers. What do you guys think of installing this type in there? I think you could work the wire one in there without overstressing it. It would need a bent inwards end on it to grab. ? Oilly

[bretto]

I was wondering to about different retainer rings.� How about one of these flat coiled ones.� Do you think it could be worked in there?


Being a full ring though might prove difficult getting it thru the planetary gears.� I do think you should try the wire type and report back
They make flat wire retainers to that would fit in the groove.

[Oilleaker1]

The coiled one would be harder than a standard type internal snapring , which I failed with. The squared one looks great, but most likely would get bent getting it in there and then would not fit the groove. A round wire type would probably go in there, but would it stay in a square groove and will it be big enough to hold the lock tab in place? All is unknown.  Joe Friday says he blue lock tights the threads and torques to spec. I didn't think of doing that.

[Ryan_M]

Joe Friday says he blue lock tights the threads and torques to spec. I didn't think of doing that.

Duh...great idea that never crossed my mind either. At the very least it'd buy a little extra insurance. When I spoke with AA last week the tech implied that even with snap ring failure if torqued to 120 ft/lbs it shouldn't back out anyways. I doubted that statement but if LockTite is used I'd feel a lot better about it.