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Author Topic: '51 3A - revisited  (Read 70888 times)

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Offline Ryan_M

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2014, 03:35:34 PM »
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Now you won't be happy until you rebuild the front one.� :-)

That's what I've been quietly fearing now. Thanks for dragging it out in the open.
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Offline Oilleaker1

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2014, 08:02:43 AM »
Besides a Willys CJ3A factory repair manual, try and find a Auto generic thick repair manual from the 50's that covers the dana 44. That's what the mechanics from that era would reference. It has pictures for you. John

Offline 1955CJ-5

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1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline Ryan_M

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2014, 04:35:27 PM »
I have discovered several manuals online that have been very helpful. Changing the Google search from "Dana 44 assembly" to "Dana 44 Setup" opened up a whole new world.

The process of measuring backlash, endplay, pinion depth, and shim placement is very tedious but really doesn't seem all that impossible....assuming you have the right tools. I have some but not all of them. The other thing that would help tremendously is having a set of reamed out "Setup" bearings to easily slide on and off while adjusting shim thickness. I have already ruined one of the old bearings trying to remove it (lack of proper tool) and I'm not sure that I want to invest in yet another set of bearings just so I can ream them out for a one-time use.

I may roll the dice and just assemble with the shims exactly as I found them. I'm still a ways off from assembling anything though. As if there were any doubt, I'll let you all know how it goes.
Current:
'49 CJ3A
'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
Previous:
'46 2A
'51 3A
'52 3A
'52 M38
'54 3B
East Coast Wi

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2014, 05:14:46 PM »
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I may roll the dice and just assemble with the shims exactly as I found them.

That is what I'd do...gotta start somewhere and you might just get lucky...

I didn't even open my differentials....wouldn't have known what to do if there was a problem anyway....but now I'll have a rebuild thread to refer to!!
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline F Bill

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2014, 06:49:36 PM »
I looked at Ebay for Dana 44 bearing kits and found one setup kit, with just the bearings , no races, for almost $80. They did not mention anything about them being honed or reamed out to slip on easily.

I also found a set of Dana 44 Carrier bearings for $44. (With races..)
 I would bet you could resell a set later if you did choose to buy a pair of bearings.
It also may be worth finding the actual bearing numbers and consulting with a local bearing supply house to see if you can get some for a better price.

As far as putting it back together with the current shimming, that's what they taught us to do for a start....
Do you have a dial gage with a magnetic base for measuring lash, etc? Harbor Freight does sell one and it isn't too awfully bad.

There is a guy who makes a pinion set up tool for the WWII  rear axles, not cheap but supposedly saves a bundle of time....I wonder if you need something like that for your axle..
Owner of the world famous?? Pintojeep 3A and one yet to be named stock project 3A.
Based in central TX and upstate NY.

Offline Oilleaker1

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2014, 07:42:14 PM »
I made a set of set up bearings. They get you close, but are not the same as the new ones. All they do is get you close. Depending on wear, The pattern on mine usually ended up good on one side and off on the other due to wear. So, I focused on the thrust side pattern since you go forward most of the time. If you get a even pattern with the correct backlash, that's as close as you'll get with used ring and pinion. John

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2014, 09:05:55 PM »
I just watched this..it might be useful...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAqAqODmcj4

A couple more views and I think I'll get it....
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline Bob W

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2014, 08:26:44 AM »
If you use the same housing, carrier, and gear set, the original shims should be fine. If you change any one of these then the original shims will be a good starting point.

Keep in mind that all D44 differentials don't use the same bearings, for many reasons, so be careful when purchasing kits from eBay and the like.
Bob W

Offline Ryan_M

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2014, 03:24:45 PM »
Bearings are coming from Walck's so hopefully they have it figured out. I'll verify everything just in case.

And according to Randy's video, as long as I wear a blue lab coat I'll be fine.
Current:
'49 CJ3A
'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
Previous:
'46 2A
'51 3A
'52 3A
'52 M38
'54 3B
East Coast Wi

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2014, 05:12:37 PM »
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And according to Randy's video, as long as I wear a blue lab coat I'll be fine.

And you will need that nice bench, diff vise and a Snap-on dial gauge...!
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline Bob W

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2014, 08:23:00 PM »
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Bearings are coming from Walck's so hopefully they have it figured out. I'll verify everything just in case.

You will get the correct bearings from Walck's.
Bob W

Offline Ryan_M

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2014, 11:05:54 PM »
If anyone is looking for a complete money pit of a project, I highly suggest totally disassembling your rear Dana 44 and spreading the pieces out across the garage floor. What an abomination. I would rather rebuild three T-90's than repeat what I've done to this stupid rear axle so far and I've barely accomplished anything. In hind sight, I should have replaced the spider gears, the one damaged carrier bearing race, and left everything else the hell alone.

Given this is such a nightmare, I've decided to attempt setting it up from scratch. Simply slapping the existing shims back in place and bolting it all back up is apt to yield acceptable results but if it doesn't this monstrosity isn't something you can just pop back apart and adjust. Bearings, shims and who knows what else are likely to be damaged with every attempt to disassemble and make adjustments.

I'm forging ahead with a plan of making set-up bearings, races, and going through the motions of and measuring each step of the way. Best case scenario, I'll still have to assemble and disassemble the entire thing on multiple trial runs with the set-up bearings before hammering home the real ones. It's a bona fide project.

I am not confident enough to even begin a "how-to" guide here but I have a few examples of what not to do. The carrier bearings were a real nightmare. When trying to remove them, unless you want to drive back to Harbor Freight with a completely mutilated bearing splitter set you just purchased the day before, don't do this:


Or this:


And for the love of all things decent don't do this


Smuggling this through the living room past your napping wife isn't a good idea either but that's a different story:


This is the magic formula that finally removed the carrier bearings. A Harbor Freight large bearing splitter with a 2-jaw puller.


Shims bagged and marked. I will reuse the ones I can and will replace the damaged ones with new shim packs of the same thickness. It'll be a good starting point anyways.


With the carrier properly gutted the disassembly is complete. I got to the first step of installing the pinion gear. Using what few bearings I didn't destroy during removal, I'm making set up bearings that can be slid on and off by hand.


It is encouraging that all the bearings and races received from Walck's are Timkens, just like the l ones I took out.


Pinion gear with new inner pinion bearing and old "set-up" outer bearing.


For the bearings I destroyed I'll have to make the set-up bearings out of brand new ones which is kind of a shame but that's the way it goes.

I picked up a set of race drivers at Harbor Freight today too. In a tight application like this it's a lot easier than fumbling around with a socket or the old race. As you're hammering on them they make a different tone once the race bottoms out so you know for sure when it's seated properly.


I also bit the bullet and used a coupon for a 12-ton press. I know that I'll have to press all these bearings on for final assembly. In asking around at a couple shops it was quickly apparent that hiring out press work is not economical. I used this press three times today already which means it has now paid for itself. I wish I bought one of these years ago.

Axle bearing posing as first test subject. Works flawlessly.


Freshly pressed pinion gear bearing. Much cleaner than my typical BFH and ill-fitting length of pipe method.



So I now have the pinion gear test assembly installed. Pretty meager progress for a week's time.
 




I'm really not sure how this will play out. If I get it back together and it actually works it'll be a miracle. If not, I may be trying to devise a way I can pull a hollow rear-end around with 4WD engaged and just a functional front axle� :D
Current:
'49 CJ3A
'51 CJ3A
'42 Willys MB-T
'47 Bantam T3-C
Previous:
'46 2A
'51 3A
'52 3A
'52 M38
'54 3B
East Coast Wi

Offline 1955CJ-5

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2014, 11:43:16 PM »
The press was a great investment. Many times I wished that I had one.....

You'll get it done....

"endeavor to persevere"
1955 CJ-5, A friend for 58 years....1951 CJ-3A, a new addition. 1929 Model A Ford Closed Cab Pickup...

Offline SteveW

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Re: '51 3A - revisited
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2014, 08:47:53 PM »
I have been married over 36 years and there is NO way I would put an axle in a tub. My wife is very patient with my "junk" but whooeee that takes guts what you did.
1950 CJ3A finished. 1950 CJ3A in pieces. 1947 Bantam T3-C trailer, 1946 Cushman Scooter 50 series