Death wobble!

[Gunslinger]

Frank,
Maybe you would think about introducing yourself, you've got a total of 18 posts, Larry on the other hand sits on the right hand of the jeep gods as far as most of us are concerned.  He's helped more us out of a problem on this page and the 2A page than most of us can count.  You may be right, you may be wrong, I don't know, but I trust Larry and I don't know you?  Sorry man, those are the facts.

Todd

[Frank]

Frank,
Maybe you would think about introducing yourself, you've got a total of 18 posts, Larry on the other hand sits on the right hand of the jeep gods as far as most of us are concerned. �He's helped more us out of a problem on this page and the 2A page than most of us can count. �You may be right, you may be wrong, I don't know, but I trust Larry and I don't know you? �Sorry man, those are the facts.

Todd

Okay Todd,

I would have done a introduction but I didnt see a spot, So yes, names Frank, I operate a General Repair shop in North Idaho, a general grease monkey, specialize in Automatic Trannys, been @ it for 20 years,

I became interested in the subject of lubrication for these enclosed live steering axles after the local Toyota dealership Told me the grease was "Private"

So I began a quest to find this semi fluid goop that I had seen before in "Viscous Couplers" found in AWD transfercases,  So long story short, I began posting about this "Private" grease on Toyota forums, letting folks know that the recommendation in the Toyota FSM not only was incorrect grade but incompatible from factory fill,

Well that did not turn out so good, and I have a list of Toyota bans from just about all of their forums, being the the entire aftermarket thinks this Old Man Willys goop is axle seal failure, even sell a upgraded seal to fix a problem that dont exist,

Now you may ask yourself what brings me to your lil Jeep forum ?  Well I supply Novak Adapt with this grease, so not really supposed to sell it thru here, but more so just to talk about it,

You will find that I can be a good source of information, as it pertains to these axles,,

Thanks Frank

[Frank]

How very true this is, taken from a funny post from a Toyota forum, they think the Molybedendum *crap lithium chassis grease is "New and modern" and the best lube as per Toyota SALES,.

And the goop that is found in them is failure,

When it is filled that way from production, just like ol Man Willys did..

Every once and a while it comes up where I am asked Why dont old Jeepers know about this stuff, My answer, I think they forgot, But then again if you read Larry's comic strip the writer mentions all the info in a certain paragraph in the book, � �

Just like the grease deal,



So the info has been in the books, as well as a bit of conflicting info, but with the help of Toyota, When Old Man Willies says "He filled the wheel bearings, he meant just that,
A liquid grease,,

As far as why on the next page it says a #2 grease for the wheel hub,,, dont know,, Maybee the same reason old Dodge books say both "Short Fiber grease" and #2 Multipurpose grease in the same book,

Clearly 2 different things, when investigated,

And Here is another good section from Old Man Willys Book



So Todd the jeep gods also shined upon me and my 70 year old neighbors Dad had a Jeep bible, and in it, It explained to me what was going on in a 1988 Toyota,

To the T


And here is a lil more info,

http://www.backwoodsgoopinfo.com/goopBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12&sid=2df629be479736d9947d28282d8fd1e1

[Frank]

The Stability and proper function of the steering system, depends in a large measure upon correct alignment, and a definite procedure for inspection of the steering system is recommended. In so doing, nothing is overlooked and any trouble is ascertained in the shortest possible time. It is suggested that the following sequence be used:

a. Equalize tire pressures and level vehicle.
b. Inspect spindle pivot pins and wheel bearing looseness.
c. Check wheel runout.
d. Test Wheel balance and bearing adjustment.
e. Check for spring sag.
f. Inspect brakes and shock absorbers
g. Check steering assembly and the steering connecting rod.
h. Check caster
i. Check toe-in
j. Check toe-out on turns.
k. Check camber
l. Check king pin inclination
m. Check turning angle
n. Check tracking of front and rear wheels.
o. Check frame alignment.

Note If the steering gear to frame bolts are not properly torqued, they will eventually loosen during operation of the vehicle, Loose bolts will result in elongated bolt holes making the maintenance of the bolt torque difficult,



Okay thats what Old Man Willy,s has to say on the subject, pretty cool, after doing all that there should be no death wobble, and may very well be the section of the book the comic strip writer refers to,

[Chasm]

Brad:

After I replaced my original tired 3A springs with new American made ones, I developed the dreaded death wobble when I hit a bump while turning right. Scared the bejeezus out of me! A check of my front end alignment indicated that the geometry changed a bit after the new springs were swapped in. An old school front end alignment solved the problem.

No technical stuff from me! Used a really long straight edge and did it the old fashioned way. �;)

[Frank]

Brad:

After I replaced my original tired 3A springs with new American made ones, I developed the dreaded death wobble when I hit a bump while turning right. Scared the bejeezus out of me! A check of my front end alignment indicated that the geometry changed a bit after the new springs were swapped in. An old school front end alignment solved the problem.

No technical stuff from me! Used a really long straight edge and did it the old fashioned way. �;)

Which is really is the only way to go, I would imagine that a New computerized alignment on these old rigs just wouldnt cut it,

[mortten]

I'm no expert but I have noticed other bearings that end up in the smae condition as Jeep king pin bearings. The steering bearings on my Triumph motorcycle looked exactly the same after 25 years of pounding. Would there be any validity to the theory that these bearings do not make complete rotations like a wheel bearing so the load is always in the same area of the race resulting in the grooving?

[Frank]

I'm no expert but I have noticed other bearings that end up in the smae condition as Jeep king pin bearings. The steering bearings on my Triumph motorcycle looked exactly the same after 25 years of pounding. Would there be any validity to the theory that these bearings do not make complete rotations like a wheel bearing so the load is always in the same area of the race resulting in the grooving?

Certainly, Basically 3 things are needed to make this sort of Race Damage, it does not appear to effect the Rollers or inner Race,

#1 Time,
#2 Pressure
#3 Vibration, And as you point out When the bearing is not moving,

This is What causes the Binnelling, eliminate any one of those 3 the bearing race will not show that wear,

[Frank]

So For this Brinnelling reason which is common, causes looseness and death wobble it makes sense that it was the lubricant of choice for Jeep this is what they say about it

"Sodium base greases are fibrous and have a fairly high melting point suitable for antifriction bearings and other high speed centrifugal-operating conditions. It is an extremely good type of grease for use in heavy-duty applications taking shock-loading and pounding. Although sensitive to water, they have found their own niche"
From Here,,

http://www.shieldlubricants.com/indexphp/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68:automotive-greases&catid=49:automotive-greases&Itemid=85


So right there, You can see the rational as to why it was used, it takes the Shock loading and pounding well, a "extremely good type of grease "

But Water sensitive,,

So if you go back a few posts you will see the caveat of rotating the wheels lock to lock after driving in wet and freezing conditions,

Dont want the Brinnelling and death wobble, use the correct type of Factory grease,