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Messages - Mark W.

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31
Quote
Mark, no argument, just discussion.�

It looks like this upgrade option started in 1961. Prior to this offer, 20 years worth of Willys Jeeps were able to fight wars, pull farm implements, and travel the backcountry with no apparent need for the larger clutch.

Speculation� Kaiser was producing this larger clutch for the heavier wagon, FC, CJ5, and other vehicles.� Because they already had it, why not offer it for older vehicles?� It cost them a couple extra holes drilled into the flywheel.� It could offer additional income for the dealers offering service.� Consider your time at the parts counter at every auto parts store.� Buying a new battery?� Perhaps you would like to upgrade your cranking amps. Or buy a better spark plug.� Or store brand oil vs. Rotella T.

My point�guys like us are more than willing to drop more dollars into our vehicles whether there�s a chance at increased performance or not.� The automotive industry knows this.� And they probably understood this back in the 60s.

To your point on pulling farm equipment, stumps, and trucks from mud bogs�There are vehicles more suited to these tasks than a 70 year old Willys.� If I have these chores, and a choice, I would probably leave the Willys at home.

That said, I have no issue with you wanting this upgrade.� If it weren't such a pain in the a..., and there was a clear performance output, I would imagine that many of us would choose an upgrade like this.

Tim

This clutch was never offered for older vehicles it was an option on CJ5's its a different clutch then used on the Wagons and Pickups which were 10" with the 226 and later 10.5" with the 226 and Tornado engines.

the 9.25" clutch was only 1960 or 61 to 1971 F head option.

The use of it in an older vehicle as I am doing is a hot rod thing where parts from something that was not original is being used to improve the vehicles performance.

32
I have been bloging my progress on the CJ-2A page Look for the Thread in the Projects section that mentions Chug a Lug

Heck here's a link

http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/a-little-project-update-on-chug-a-lug_topic33676.html

Its going to take until the Spring of 2016 to have Chug back on the road so the thread might get pretty long by then

33
In my case I am using the 9.25" kit everyone sells for the CJ5

And yes oldtime my engine is going to be significantly modified it will be bored .060" over it will have the head shaved between .035" and .040" it will have a progressive two bbl carb on an aluminum intake manifold with a fresh air intake and free flow aircleaner, It will have a 4 in to 1 header Electronic ignition with a captive discharge spark box and vacuum advance, No fan, no fuel pump (reducing parasitic drag) And it will be tuned by someone who knows how to time and tune an engine.

on another forum one of the guys put his box stock Willys on a chassis Dyno the results showed 40.25 HP and 75. ft lbs of torque at 2200 rpm at the rear wheels. This would be approx. 80% of the actual HP of the engine due to the transmission, transfer case, and rear axle losses.. Engine HP would have been approx. 50 HP at 2200rpm

He then put an aluminum 8-1 compression ratio head on the engine. Did nothing else to change the performance of the engine. This resulted in an increase of 7.75HP and 20ftlbs of torque again at 2200rpm. Again using the 80% correction factor he made approx. a 9.5 to 10 HP improvement at 2200rpm.

Now remove the fan and the drag from the mechanical fuel pump. Improve the fuel air mixture with a much better carb greatly improve the exhaust system and improve the timing and ignition and yes I think a clutch with 14% more surface area will be called for.

Let you all know how it turns out when the thing is assembled and on the road in a couple years.

34
Well as I said. The difference in cost for me having to buy virtually everything new save the Bellhousing and Plate (so the $100.00 the proper flywheel cost with shipping is more) is not that much. As to ever needing the extra 14% or friction material well unless I do it now there would be no opportunity to do it later.

As I have said on a couple other forums. When Chug A Lug is done I'll do a complete performance test and make sure everyone knows what the results are.

35
Not to start an argument but if the larger clutch was not advantageous why would Willys and then Kaiser both offer it as an option?

I plan on doing some towing with my Jeep and just as I would upgrade my brakes to stop I am upgrading my clutch to get going. While there are lots of ways to use a Willys Jeep that the 8.5" clutch is perfectly adequate there are other it is not. Try pulling a stump with your 8.5" clutch and see if you couldn't use a bigger clutch, Pulling your buddies Toyota or Ford out of the ditch, mud hole or snow bank. Heck try pulling a 2 bottom plow 8" deep in Sandy Loam soil all day long and see if a larger clutch wouldn't reduce the wear and tear.

If I had a running driving survivor Willys I would most likely never go to the cost and effort to upgrade the clutch. But almost every piece I am buying to do this needed to be replaced to get my Jeep back on the road and to the condition I want it.

SO I AM.

36
DUDE I love the paint on the Bell Housing. Mine is currently New Ford Gray which we chose because it will pop against the Orange Red that my inner fenders and firewall will be. And contrast nicely with the Semi Gloss Black I am using for various parts in the engine compartment.

I'm hoping to be very close to your progress by late Spring. If I run out of funds for the drive train I'm going to switch to body work.


37
OK guys I know all about this as I am in the middle of upgrading to a 9.25" Clutch.

You will need:

The Flywheel Drilled as shown above with the 6 evenly spaced pressure plate bolt mounting holes. This flywheel requires the two tapered cones be in your crankshaft (so if you do not have this already it will require you to drop your crank and all the fun stuff that involves) This is a 129 Tooth flywheel

The Bell Housing has to be the enclosed nose style that has all the mounting bolt holes in about a 2" long boss. This is to allow clearance for the larger pressure plate.

The matching Rear Plate that goes with the above listed Bell Housing. Its the only one the starter hole will match up to.

A 9.25" Disc and Pressure Plate

The Starter must be the enclosed nose style designed to be used with a 129 tooth Ring gear. (the big plus here is that it also allows a '64-'83 Toyota 4.2L, Nippondenso PN 02800-2362/4 starter to be used at a cost of $60.00 instead of what a rebuilt Willys Starter can run.)

The Clutch Cross Shaft should also be the one designed to work with the 9.25" clutch (walcks carries them)

All other parts are the same as the 8.5" clutch.

38
This is what I ended up with after trimming down my large smooth pedals.



I measured the inside of the rubber pedal cover and then cut the pedal down  about a 1/16th under that and the covers slipped right on.

39
When you say Narrow Pedal are you talking about the CJ5 style that is small enough to put the Rubber pads on? I cut mine down to fit a set of the pads I found NOS at a very good price. My pedals were smooth with just the lip on one side. I now have Rubber padded pedals.

40
Interesting This "space" is where I intend to mount my Air compressor for my on board air system. Your ammo box tray looks a lot like my battery tray which I made huge to hold a series 31 1000amp battery. I even had to make the kick out in the inner fender 2.5" longer.

41
MG 1500cc engine. You have to stretch the manifold and add a bunch of material on the flanges to be then reshaped to fit. Once you stretch the manifold unless you do it by cutting and adding to each runner. You will have to make a new cab mounting plate as I did since I stretched it in the middle. You will need someone who can do some serious deep TIG welding to make it work correctly. I used a local guy who specializes in welding and one off fabrication stuff. I did all the fab he did the welding.

42
Bryce my engine is not complete yet so how it runs I do not know. Nothing I am using is factory unless it has been extensively modified. The carb mounting plates I made myself the manifold is actually made for a British sports car. I have to stretch it to get it to fit the 134L.

In a couple weeks I should be into fabbing up my Tri Y design header. I need to get the Engine set into the frame first.

The engine mods I have made are all things I proved on my Wifes 200 L6 powered Mustang. Exactly how well they will work on the 134L is yet to be seen. But I am shooting for about 85HP.


43
Brian I am also going to be running a Weber DGV progressive two barrel. I am curious about one thing though. Why did you chose to run your carb 90 degrees to the way it should be run? I know it makes for a harder adapter or in your case DIY manifold. But you now have effectively one runner much longer then the other which will cause an imbalance.

I went a very different route I have modified a factory made Aluminum manifold to fit the 134L And have the Barrels oriented so that they are across the runners with a nice big Plenum.

I am also going to be creating a Tri Y style header where 1 and 4 are joined then 2 and 3 are joined and via a secondary pipes the two sets are joined exiting the jeep via a 2.25" pipe. This will increase the bottom to mid range Torque as compared to a Clifford 4 into 1 style header which really only helps on the top end. Like 3500 rpm and up.



I still have the mounting flanges to shape and some final polishing. The Phenolic spacer as well as the aluminum with the barrel sized holes also helps increase bottom end torque. And the Phenolic helps keep the carb cool. I also opted to put the PCV and the vacuum port for my gauge in the center to make sure that both sides were even.

I am running a Stock head that has been shaved .035" with the Deck cut .007" and a FelPro composite gasket that results in a 7.2-1 compression ratio with my .060" over bore.

Your jetting numbers will make a nice starting point for me. I'll be doing it old school based on plug color. Though I might go the O2 Wide band route.


44
Would be interesting to find a way to compare your dual carb setup to the Weber 32/36 progressive 2 barrel I am planning. I'll be using an aluminum manifold made from 2) aluminum pipe elbows and an aluminum box milled out of a small block of aluminum. I am also building a header for the engine and will have the header flange (going to be 3/8" T) pass over the intake ports and the Intake manifold will bolt to it to make it easy for the two different metals to expand. Instead of trying to use one bolt to hold two different metals.  I'll be running a fresh air intake system that will put the Air cleaner ahead of the raditator just below the hood. I'm working on some sort of high water baffle or possibly a way to reroute the air intake for deep water.

I love how clean and simple your dual carb setup is. VERY Hot Roddy

45
I'm going with a Shovel and a Pulaski Axe as it has both the Axe edge and the digging blade of a Mattock. I'll also add in a large Bow saw. And of course a High lift Jack. 

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