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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Vin Number

« on: May 23, 2021, 10:24:13 AM »

It has all the earmarks of an early 1970s reproduction tub...that includes a mix of M38 and CJ3A features.

The owner told me that the man that had restored the jeep wanted a M38, the problem here in Argentina is that there are only 3 MCs, and its cheaper to buy a new Ferrari than one of those jeeps. So, he decided to convert a CJ3A to MC. It could be a repro tub, however I never see that stuff here in Argentina. I talked to this guy who had restored this jeep, and believe me, he never would use a repro tub, his hobby is to restored old vehicles.

So, I don't know, maybe it could be repro tub Tim, maybe not. However, thank you for all your help. Your OD looks great!

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Vin Number

« on: May 22, 2021, 10:09:59 PM »

The CJ3A never had a number on the tailgate.   (Also referred to as the ACM number.)  Only the CJ2A  had an ACM number, but there would have been at least a 10,000 point difference when compared to the 2A serial number. 

That is a nice looking Jeep.  It has a reproduction tub.

I dont think that its a repro tub Tim. Here in Argentina is impossible to import one and the prices of importation are imposible to achieve. So i think its an original cj3a tub. However, the toolbox was changed due to it was rusted, as well as, the floor is from an IKA (Evolution of the CJ5 that was produced here in Argentina).

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Vin Number

« on: May 22, 2021, 03:34:58 PM »

There is a chance the right edge of the tailgate will have a serial number stamped. This number is typically very close to the serial number for the Tub (what people call a VIN number though no vehicle ever made by Willys had a VIN.

If your ignition switch hole is between the gauges and the steering column its a 3A if its between the gauges and the Data Plate its a 2A.

Hello Mark. Yesterday i travelled 300km to see this jeep. The dashboard was changed, however i measured the housewheel and it has 32´´ or 81cm. So, maybe its a 3A. However, i dont know if the tailgate is original, i would have to ask.

Another Question, is there any change in the ignition pedal? I saw in some 2a and early 3a that it looks as an MB or GPW. These are some pictures of the jeep that i would probably buy:
https://imgur.com/a/UvA9Tq2

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Vin Number

« on: May 19, 2021, 08:59:23 PM »

With the serial number data plate gone, there is no way to know the original serial number on a CJ3A.  There are often date codes on the axles, transmissions  and the TCs, They can help you get close to the date of manufacture...which could help you know the serial number range.

At least is something, at least i can know which model or year of cj3a is. Thanks Athawk! I am planning to do something like your jeep. Yours looks gorgeous!

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Vin Number

« on: May 19, 2021, 07:48:41 PM »

Hello there,

I have recently bought a CJ3A. I am wondering if i can know which VIN or Serial number my cj3a used to have. The firewall plate is missing, as well as the original engine. Can the transfer case or any axle have a serial number to connect to my jeep? Thanks!

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Is it a CJ3A?

« on: April 08, 2021, 06:28:17 PM »

The main differences (that I know of) on frames is gussets on the front bumber (but those can be removed) and thickness of the rails (can't be changed).  I recall reading that the 3A frame is thicker  but again, I don't have much reference material except what I find on the 'net. 

I can dig a bit more but will need to be later.

Rus, thanks for your help. I was looking some on the links that you wrote down early in this post, while i was seeing the cj3a frame front bumper i notice a differences between cj2as and cj3as.
This a cj2a frame photo:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cj2a+frame&sxsrf=ALeKk02gxge9IZCcth0F5IFQiRRxbqXWjA:1617920216391&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=ejvWuVD2vDdBQM%252Cukcb6O4BMUp_5M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kR_glXUUllcGEYJCPWIaq1buWAUtQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZ8pa-1u_vAhVbILkGHR_qBV0Q9QF6BAgWEAE#imgrc=_3WvL2-icOhOEM

If you see some pictures, cj2a front bumper is hold with a figure like a triangle, cj3as front bumper are direcly connected to the frame.

https://www.cj3apage.com/index/My_1950/frame_work.htm

Really, thanks dude! Its really a cj3a frame, so the tub must be a cj3a as well

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Is it a CJ3A?

« on: April 08, 2021, 06:10:10 PM »

The main differences (that I know of) on frames is gussets on the front bumber (but those can be removed) and thickness of the rails (can't be changed).  I recall reading that the 3A frame is thicker  but again, I don't have much reference material except what I find on the 'net. 

I can dig a bit more but will need to be later.

Dont worry dude! Your replies are really good. Thanks a lot. The problem is the data plates and as you said, gussets can be removed as well as the engine mounts, that normally with a cj3a engine they are offset, but the engine of this jeep looks like an mb or gpw. Its doesnt have a cj block.

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Is it a CJ3A?

« on: April 08, 2021, 04:46:08 PM »

I don't own a CJ-3A so if I'm wanting to research specifics, I'd search using the 3A jeep icon above as a starting point.  You can also do a dive into the "3A Projects" section in this forum and it may help alot.  I also own a copy of Bob Westerman's book, The Civilian Jeep Model CJ-3A,  also a great reference.

One link on the 3A Page I visit from time to time is:
https://www.cj3apage.com/index/My_1950.htm

There's detailed images of various components.  Components that look different from the images you shared above.  For instance, I also wonder about the hat channel brace under the right fender - it's different from what I am used to seeing on a civilian jeep.  Plus, the hat channels running under the floor are laid out in a way that is unusual to me.  The rear axle appears to be a later D44 (again, don't know if 3A's switched from D41 to 44 at some point).  I would also expect to see the "WILLYS" stamp on the tailgate of a 3A. 

I see images of more than one frame, so I don't know if it's just random images of multiple frames or all the donors used to cobble together what is now under the jeep.  There is a good reference on frames here:
https://cj3b.info/Dating/DatingFrames.html

You may also want to reference the Serial Data Plate on the firewall to see what it says, as well as the engine Serial number on the flat boss above the water pump.  That would help too.

I know that things were constantly changing during the production run of these jeeps.  Knowing what year that jeep is supposed to be may help.

Also, I've read threads before about, "which part makes a jeep that model jeep?"  e.g. Is a 3A with a rotted frame using a swapped in (modified) 2A frame still a 3A?  Is a complete 3A (frame/drive train) with no body using a 2A body (complete with Serial Plates for registration) a 2A or 3A?  etc. 

This could get deep.  From a distance, that jeep looks like a military jeep.  I can see non- civilian items, but modification is easy. 

Here's a question.  If it really is a CJ--3A and those are rare, wouldn't it maybe make more sense to restore that vs. modify it to resemble a military jeep?  What is the seller saying?

Hey Rus,

Thanks for your reply. I think that Willys changed the rear axle from D41 to 44 in middle to late 3as. The owner of this jeep when he restored it he wanted the look of a M38, thats why the military stuff as well as the tailgate with no Willis stamp.
The principal problem is that the jeep doesnt have the original data plate, so the serial number is missing. The data plate that you can see is a repro with no numbers. The owner also told me that the frame doesnt have any serial number stamped on it, as willys did with cj2a frames.

So, i really want to know if the the frame and the tub are from a cj3a. I can see many characteristics, for example the ignition switch and the windowshield, but i really dont know how to difference the frames.

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Re: Is it a CJ3A?

« on: April 08, 2021, 03:02:17 PM »

I'm pretty sure that isn't a Cj3A passenger front fender, there's no bulge for the battery tray.

But the rest of the jeep? The owner told me that the frame doesnt have a serial number, as well as the tub has the ignition hole in the right place.

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"Original"-- Technical Questions, Answers, Observations / Is it a CJ3A?

« on: April 08, 2021, 11:28:59 AM »

Hello there,

I am from Argentina where CJ3As are really rare, and most of the jeeps are really jeeps salad. I really want to know if this jeep is a real cj3a, or it just have a cj3a tub and a cj2a frame.

https://imgur.com/a/XdoX9wj

Thanks!