My Willys 3A and 3B Community
Your Projects => Your CJ-3A Project => Topic started by: jeep63 on October 21, 2024, 09:43:11 AM
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I am a modern Jeep guy with ~25 years experience with YJs and 5 years experience with JKs. I own a restored late-95 YJ and a 2013 Jeep JK 10th Anniversary Rubicon. I’m done with modern Jeeps and have been searching for a 3A for many years. I accidentally found one 30 minutes from my house. It is all original save for the push button activated starter. The owner inherited it from his father, who owned it since new; using it on their farm in Indiana to plow the 1/2 mile lane out. It was only used for that purpose. The seller did take it on fishing trips when he was in college, but had to return it before winter every year. lol.
It was stored in the barn on the farm until 10 years ago when he moved to Maryland and kept it in his garage with the intention of restoring it. He never did. It is in really good shape and runs, but does not stop due to a seized master cylinder, as far as i can tell.
I hope to restore it as a nice Jeep, but not show room new.
I know very little about early Jeeps. I hope to lean on the experience here.
My initial plans are address starter not working well/consistently, and redo the fuel and brake system fully.
Here are a few pics. one is from the farm “back in the day”
The rest are after i got it home
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Welcome jeep63! Looks like an excellent project!
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Welcome. It does look like a great project.
I found the following that may help with "FOOT STARTER ISSUES"... https://cj3a.info/tech/starter.html
Have FUN!
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Oh Boy.... looks like a fun vehicle. Welcome to the site.
Lots of good info on this site. Start the fun with a good service manual.
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Thanks. I have two that came with it. One seems quite old.
I'm going to the MVA next week to register it, but not get tags yet. In MD they have permanent tags for 50+ year vehicles where you pay a one-time fee for them not an annual fee.
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Very nice survivor!!! Thanks for posting photos of your excellent CJ-3A. The combination of a "push button" starter, a vacuum advance distributor, and the lack of an oil filter makes me suspect it may have had an engine swap at some point in it's life. The engine serial number would verify that assumption.
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"Very nice survivor!!! Thanks for posting photos of your excellent CJ-3A. The combination of a "push button" starter, a vacuum advance distributor, and the lack of an oil filter makes me suspect it may have had an engine swap at some point in it's life. The engine serial number would verify that assumption"
Can I "pick your brain" regarding the vacuum advance distributor.
I understand that oil filters were not always present. Am I incorrect? I did order a setup from KaiserWillys.com.
I was told the owner's son installed the push button starter, and he did not recall why. That was all the explanation he gave on that. Since the starter is acting up, I was planning to restore the foot pedal and use a starter for that configuration.
I did reach out to see if the PO remembers the engine being swapped. I found the engine serial number, but it does not match the VIN on the title either.
I doubt any of this will cause an issue with registration, but I would like to find the source of that number.
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The PO just got back to me and said it is all original, besides the push button start. He was upfront about that from the outset. He says the engine was never swapped.
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One possible reason to install a push button starter..... sometimes you get in a situation where you need three legs to get the Jeep going again..... maybe you are going uphill and in a heavily rutted road and are in a steep lean then the engine dies. You need one foot to hold the brake, one foot to press the floor starter, and the other foot to work the accelerator. You learn how to do this jiggle. Of course you can pull the throttle and use the park brake.... if they work. LOL
Have fun!
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The throttle cable on the dash allows you to work the throttle while the “gas foot” is engaging the starter.
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Can I "pick your brain" regarding the vacuum advance distributor.
I understand that oil filters were not always present. Am I incorrect? I did order a setup from KaiserWillys.com.
I was told the owner's son installed the push button starter, and he did not recall why. That was all the explanation he gave on that. Since the starter is acting up, I was planning to restore the foot pedal and use a starter for that configuration.
I did reach out to see if the PO remembers the engine being swapped. I found the engine serial number, but it does not match the VIN on the title either.
I doubt any of this will cause an issue with registration, but I would like to find the source of that number.
What would you like to know about the distributor? What numbers and letters are on the distributor tag? CJ-3As did not come from the factory with vacuum advance distributors. Other vehicles did.
CJ-3As came from the factory with oil filters. Other vehicles did not.
If you replace the starter be sure to count the teeth on the ring gear so you get a starter that will work.
What is the engine serial number? With that more information can be provided.
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What would you like to know about the distributor? What numbers and letters are on the distributor tag? CJ-3As did not come from the factory with vacuum advance distributors. Other vehicles did.
CJ-3As came from the factory with oil filters. Other vehicles did not.
If you replace the starter be sure to count the teeth on the ring gear so you get a starter that will work.
What is the engine serial number? With that more information can be provided.
I do not see a vacuum line going to the distributor.
I smacked the starter with a hammer and got the Jeep running. I will keep your tip to count the teeth in mind when i go to replace it.
The engine serial number is on this pic.
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I do see the vacuum advance mechanism on the distributor, the line may be missing.
Your engine is from a Henry J car. There should also be a tag riveted to the block below the distributor with the same serial number stamped on it. The serial number of the starter or distributor could give more clues about the date of the engine. These engines were made by Willys for Kaiser. Does the cylinder head have the word "Supersonic" on it?
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I do see the vacuum advance mechanism on the distributor, the line may be missing.
Your engine is from a Henry J car. There should also be a tag riveted to the block below the distributor with the same serial number stamped on it. The serial number of the starter or distributor could give more clues about the date of the engine. These engines were made by Willys for Kaiser. Does the cylinder head have the word "Supersonic" on it?
First off, thanks for helping with this.
I did some google-foo and read up on the vacuum advance distributor. I understand it a bit more now. I identified the vacuum advance mechanism on the distributor, and the line is indeed missing.
I had been trying to figure out how the VIN on the original Indiana title did not match the serial number on the firewall. All this engine serial number research led me to what I beleive is the answer. The title vin is 3J93170; I believe this to be the original engine serial number. It is my understanding that some states used the engine serial number. The PO is the son of the original owner, and it is possible the engine was swapped without his knowledge.
Yes, it has Super Sonic cast on the head.
I will read up on the Henry J engine now, and will look for the tag you reference.
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Engine serial number 3J93170 aligns perfectly as the original engine for 451-GB1 40482.
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Engine serial number 3J93170 aligns perfectly as the original engine for 451-GB1 40482.
VIN/Engine origin questions have been solved.
Now, I need to find out where to access vacuum and route the line to the distributor.
I can put around enough without it for now, but once I get the brakes and exhaust leak fixed, I will focus on that.
I hope to get this stopping soon. Once I have that, I can concentrate on the body stuff.
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Now, I need to find out where to access vacuum and route the line to the distributor.
Distributor vacuum would come from a port/fitting on the base of the carburetor. Looks like your carburetor is the CJ-3A type and so it may not have a place to hook up distributor vacuum advance. If it does it will be a plug with 1/8" pipe thread. I would first check the vacuum advance on the distributor to see if it works. Often times the advance mechanism doesn't even operate properly after all these years. You could always replace the distributor with the original non vacuum advance type.
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Distributor vacuum would come from a port/fitting on the base of the carburetor. Looks like your carburetor is the CJ-3A type and so it may not have a place to hook up distributor vacuum advance. If it does it will be a plug with 1/8" pipe thread. I would first check the vacuum advance on the distributor to see if it works. Often times the advance mechanism doesn't even operate properly after all these years. You could always replace the distributor with the original non vacuum advance type.
It looks like there is no port at the base of my carburetor. Any chance it was never hooked up?
Seems like there would be an issue if it was not hooked up.
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The carburetor is for a CJ-3A and the distributor is for a Henry J. CJ-3As don't have vacuum advance distributors and Henry Js do. It is a mismatch of components.
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The carburetor is for a CJ-3A and the distributor is for a Henry J. CJ-3As don't have vacuum advance distributors and Henry Js do. It is a mismatch of components.
Looks like I need to add a distributor to my list. Do you have any recommendations for where and what to purchase?
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My CJ3A came from the po with a vacuum distributor, IAT-4405, but no vacuum line. I could tell improved performance after adding a vacuum line. My intake manifold has a port for the vacuum advance connection. I will check the location and report back at lunch time. The correct distributor for the CJ3A is the IAD-4008.
I also had an issue with the NC * when getting it changed to a SC *. The NC * did not exactly match the vehicle vin tag. Turns out the * number was a combination of the vehicle vin number and the engine serial number. A picture of the engine s/n and the vin tag satisfied the DVM.
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My CJ3A came from the po with a vacuum distributor, IAT-4405, but no vacuum line. I could tell improved performance after adding a vacuum line.
I also had an issue with the NC * when getting it changed to a SC *. The NC * did not exactly match the vehicle vin tag. Turns out the * number was a combination of the vehicle vin number and the engine serial number. A picture of the engine s/n and the vin tag satisfied the DVM.
My plan was to simply add the vacuum line, but my carburetor does not have the vacuum port, so no way to add the line to the carb. I'll search for the proper distributor with mechanical advance and install that. With any hope, the existing 'new' parts on my current distributor can be preserved and are swappable into the one I replace it with: points, rotor, cap, etc...
As to the Jeep serial number vs. engine serial number VIN issue, I am stumped. The original engine has been replaced and I have no number that matches the VIN listed on the title. I would prefer the title use the serial number for the Jeep, but I don't know if I want to open that can of worms with the MVA.
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I have no idea why the word * is changed to an asterisk. I corrected it and it was changed back to an asterisk again.
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I have no idea why the word * is changed to an asterisk. I corrected it and it was changed back to an asterisk again.
I seem to recall this a while back. There's a filter to keep some words from being posted. It's not a perfect system and can censor some words that don't need to be.
Added
Found it: https://cj3apage.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4961.msg38672#msg38672
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I have no idea why the word * is changed to an asterisk. I corrected it and it was changed back to an asterisk again.
Now, I'm curious to know what word is being replaced by the splat. ;D ???
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Thanks for the explanation Rus. Saves me from trying to find out how to disable auto complete on my iPad which I thought was the problem. But I see where jeep63 used the title word in a post above one of mine. .??
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Now, I'm curious to know what word is being replaced by the splat. ;D ???
Me too!
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”title” was the word which now shows. I haven’t a clue what’s going on.
Jeep63 crs caught up with me on the vacuum line connection. You are correct on the location of the line connection on the carb base.
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â€title†was the word which now shows. I haven’t a clue what’s going on.
Jeep63 crs caught up with me on the vacuum line connection. You are correct on the location of the line connection on the carb base.
Of course the text would disappear......
Who knew title was a bad word?
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Meanwhile back in the Batcave...
I'm unsure if it is worth the effort to try and free up the master cylinder, replace the 'smashed' "S" brake hard line to the front driver side brakes, just to see if the brakes work. This Jeep has been sitting for at least 10 years in a garage, and before that was in the barn for who knows how long. I'm sure the brake fluid is mostly water by now and the rubber lines are likely not up to any pressure. If I don't mess with the brakes, I'm pulling the body off to fix the floor and replace the hat channels, and generally clean up the frame, axles, etc... With the body off running the brake lines and doing the master cylinder will be much easier. Getting it running was my main goal and now that it is, I'm ready to tear it all down.
Maybe I just needed to write this post to see the futility in getting the brakes working with the existing setup.
Off to start unbolting.....
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Sounds like you have made a wise decision. Good luck and have fun!
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For what it's worth, I agree, you've made the correct decision. My experience from my Willys project with less "stored time since last driven"... was that even tho when I put the rear wheels off the ground and ran the running gear and rear brakes... I found that on the ground in my driveway, I had "not enough brakes". Luckily, I had placed cinder blocks at the end of my short path of maybe a 50 foot trial run, to get me stopped before my garage door.
What I found, as Bil T implied, the brake lines were almost "solid rust inside". Front cylinders were "frozen up" as well. One cannot tell from the outside what Father Time may have done on the inside. BE SAFE!!! Have fun "learning from" and "exploring" with your iconic project adventure.
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I making tear-down progress with some surprising results during bolt/nut removal, and some typical results where the bolt simply shears during remove; all with only hand tools.
I have a question regarding draining the fuel pump. How do you do it? I don't want any fuel to gum up the pump or carb and need to drain both to ensure they remain clean. Any tips?
I removed what must have been 20lbs of oil impregnated dirt,grass and straw packed between the skid plate and trans/transfer cases. This mixture preserved the skid plate nuts and bolts to where they came off easily with hand tools. The skid plate is also preserved!
The windshield mount bolts also came off easily.
One body mount bolt came off clean and one has broken thus far.
I'm now working on the steering wheel and letting some kroil soak in for a couple of days to help. My plan is use a large metal ring underneath and my two jaw puller to see if I can get it to budge.
I continue to pull my functional Jeeps out and reposition the 3A for my work sessions. This jenga manuevering is not too bad.
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Pics attached.... I continue to struggle with getting pics 'in' my posts as opposed to attached... ugh...