My Willys 3A and 3B Community
TECH FAQ SECTIONS => Electrical Systems => Topic started by: Roger Carroll on August 15, 2023, 11:07:47 AM
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I had to get a jump start in my 3B over the weekend. The battery is new so I know that isn't the problem. I've never had a generator before and I have no idea about the electrical system around them. The first thing I did was clean the connections between the generator and the voltage regulator. When I removed the regulator bits or insulation that had dry rotted around the bolts fell off. My first question is how do I test the voltage regulator and the generator? My second question is that assuming the regulator it is not the problem, how do I insulate it again?
I don't know anything about generators, regulators, or electricity so advice for dummy's is appreciated.
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Roger,
Welcome! I see you joined back in June. Took me a bit to find your first post.
https://cj3apage.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5668.msg42047#msg42047
Sorry no one has replied to that post!! Re-reading that answered a lot of my questions for this post. I can see you have the cluster gauge (that mostly doesn't work) for your '63 and a 12V system. What's that gauge to the left of the steering column (where the defroster hose would normally be)?
If you have a Service Manual (SM), there's a whole section devoted to the electrical system. In that section (Sect. I), there's a list of checks you can perform to test the components. You didn't post your location but if you have a good electrical shop, that would obviously be the simplest option. They may be hard to find now. Plus, information is on the 3B Page:
https://cj3b.info/Regulator.html
Start simple. Are the terminals and cable ends clean? Do you have any white powder buildup on your cables? Is the cable insulation puffy or bumpy around the wire? That buildup will insulate and not allow the battery to charge - but will also interfere with starting the engine too. I noticed from your previous post the odd cable routing - leading me to ask if you have the ground strap between the engine and frame?
Since these vehicles don't have sensitive electronics on them, an easy "shade tree" method to check for charge is to disconnect the negative battery cable while running. The generator will need a slight increase in rpm's so use the throttle cable to bump up the idle just a bit. Then with the jeep in neutral/brake set, go and pull the neg cable off the battery. If it dies, the charging system isn't working.
Either the regulator or the generator (or both) may be causing a problem. Knowing which one will save time and money.
As far as the "gasket" is concerned, are you referring to the mounting bolts that hold the regulator to the fender or a gasket under the hood when the two screws are removed to look inside? The regulator posts should be insulated internally. You can mount it directly to the fender or use grommets that fit the hole and bolts but I think that would just provide shock isolation (mine is mounted directly to the fender).
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Thanks Rus! My cluster gauge is definitely inop but I sent it off to see if someone could fix it. The extra gauge is an oil gauge. It usually reads about 40 when operating.
I do have the SM and have been reading it, but I don't understand electricity (ohms, amps, volts, etc all run together in my head). I did clean all the terminals and there is no corrosion I can see. I do have a ground strap and the negative from the battery runs to the head. I will definitely try pulling off the negative cable to see if the engine dies.
I did find some information on the page and it looks like I have the Remy Delco regulator. It was attached to the fender with the bolts in the picture. You can see there was a shoulder and some sort of bushing or insulator that rotted. The nuts are hollow too. I've never seen that before. Regardless, they were too long to secure the regulator tightly. It was pretty loose. If it doesn't need to be insulated from the fender I will just reattach it with some better bolts.
It is completely originally but believe the vehicle is pretty close. Most of the odd wiring can be attributed to the removal of the turn signals. That created all kinds of problems with the brake/tail lights and the parking lights.
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Roger,
In your SM, look at figure 140, in Section I. That is the ground strap I'm referring to. Typically, the battery ground cable is attached to the front of the battery tray. The strap in Fig. 140 completes the grounding between the engine and the frame. I've seen battery cables attached to the engine and that will work.
That new image above does appear to be a vibration dampener or shock dampener. Finding an exact replacement may be a challenge.
I'm not an electrician but the analogy I've been told is Volts is like the water pressure on a hose. Amperes is the amount of flow through the hose.
Ohms is resistance. If you have a multimeter, you can check each wire to see if there's resistance within, which would interfere with charging and operation.
Another member here, Chuck, rebuilt his cluster gauge with a few challenges. I sent my gauges off to have them rebuilt.
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Here are some reference materials I used to try to understand the generator/regulator. Maybe it will help.
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Trying to expand on Rus's "water hose" analogy, think of the hose as the "conductor" from the source "battery". The larger the hose the less restriction to "flow". Putting your thumb or finger over the end of the hose "resistance=LOAD" causes the same "flow" to "work harder=AMPS". "Amps" yield heat (wasted energy from resistance), derived from "voltage" divided by "resistance/ohms" equals "amps" (energy losses from inefficiency =finger over hose end). The amps/heat is what triggers breakers or blows fuses if too high. I hope that helps.
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I appreciate everyone’s assistance. I definitely have the grounding strap. It runs from the bottom of the battery tray to the generator bracket bolted to the engine.
I’m actually beginning to think I have the wrong generator in my vehicle. I bought bushings and proper bolts from Kaiser Willy’s and when I installed them the generator was not held securely. Is the generator supposed to mount inside or outside of the engine bracket? Mine attach one inside and one outside. I would think it would attach on the inside against the bushings.
According to the SM my Auto-Lite should be either a 4801 or a 7404.
Thanks!
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I appreciate everyone’s assistance. I definitely have the grounding strap. It runs from the bottom of the battery tray to the generator bracket bolted to the engine.
I’m actually beginning to think I have the wrong generator in my vehicle. I bought bushings and proper bolts from Kaiser Willy’s and when I installed them the generator was not held securely. Is the generator supposed to mount inside or outside of the engine bracket? Mine attach one inside and one outside. I would think it would attach on the inside against the bushings.
According to the SM my Auto-Lite should be either a 4801 or a 7404.
Thanks!
Here I was thinking you just posted a nice picture - only to log out and find you've typed a whole bunch more! (Copied to show your post)
When I acquired my 12V gen (long time ago) I found out it didn't quite fit. Some emails back and forth with Lawrence Wade helped me confirm my generator was a bit too long. My solution was to align the pulley with the water pump and crank. That's what I recommend to you. For me, I got the alignment with the generator positioned in front of the engine plate (hard to tell but that figure I posted about earlier, fig 140, shows the gen mounted in front of the engine plate) . I just had to use some spacers (washers) to take up the slack in the rear to make it snug. So, align the pullies and that should help you decide whether front or behind the engine plate. I wanted the front to be as secure as possible, between the mount and the adjusting arm, to ensure the fan belt would align and run without being off-center. In the image below you can see the gen flush with the engine plate (washers on both sides of the rubber insulator -front and rear - to get even compression). Then I could take up the extra length in the rear with spacers.
I've since replaced that generator with one that actually fits the bracket and put the washers in my hardware drawer. You can see my ground strap just below the generator.