My Willys 3A and 3B Community
TECH FAQ SECTIONS => Electrical Systems => Topic started by: BillT on February 19, 2023, 09:22:03 PM
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I have ‘52 CJ3A 6 volt. I’m thinking about adding turn signals. My main concern is the front parking lights. Is there a way to retain the original look? Any details on how to go about this is appreciated.
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In the Specs and tech tips electrical section you will find a very easy to follow directions to convert the sockets to fit a dual element bulb. I did this and it is very easy to do with great results. Good luck and have fun.
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See also https://CJ3B.info/Tech/ParkingLights.html
Derek
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Earl and Derek I must not have worded my search words very well. Thank you for your tips. I’m still not sure I will add the turn signals since my goal with this Jeep was to put it back to original equipment. But it seems some folks today do not understand directional hand signals, but they can be free to offer me their finger signal.😡 LOL
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Find a Signal Stat 800 turn signal switch they will flash the single element park lights I have that setup on my 48 granted its 12V but that has no bearing.
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Yes Mark that is what I’m finding out during my searches. What bulb are you running for the front lights? I understand there can be a bulb length issue. I have found installation instructions, thanks to forum members. What would be the best way to find a good 800? I find some available on eBay but they are untested and no returns, I would be better off throwing my $49.95 in the trash can. I had rather just keep watching the Jeep forums and buy one from an established member.
So if you or any other forum member have a lead on one please let me know.
Thanks Mark
BillT
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A quick search on ebay came up with two...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233576241604?hash=item36623a99c4:g:KHsAAOSw249erI5x&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsDcypy52N%2BbWgQLEeMRHewQumZqDpf1oI7uOAWkHojDYoKZHZt8Jr4rDZ0%2FCAeR69FdL3rLClgQcJoZf7VMNGSaSNTTG%2BnpTW8Z2tgt4OeTTQ19R9bWrT0roAl0tYyAobXhlmK%2F2%2B2QFE1kQgZdkHDOpz%2F5iugtahzO2YVm%2BwaMB0kCl7I3B%2FoGxcZeth5Mnjv1Avft5zdpVR70sKuxaYxzVI1Pu2rCchb9o21Bno4XP%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6zX8MPOYQ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234901530006?hash=item36b138e596:g:Y8QAAOSwKKFj7qZs&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsGj8b19rGXQPSL%2Fli1%2FuvLp3Ec5wBzRZyptsLYp%2FVrdIl9I3QS6tnUETpgKGoJf8%2BC8z7CvQHOKjSjDKgTCPvEvsqc2FIm8meqOIVGz15LQnHsED%2B2N96euz7yWf%2FuGG8%2F4VtrtooSSNySaZz9KUDDh8qahCGLo7GszEbDKzW8FwYCW1yrTJAD8pg0pP%2BgDbp40c%2Ba5smfZkWhOCfSfiy%2Fljvt7CVsjjXO3vqgLSUySd%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6zX8MPOYQ
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Thanks Steve I saw those last night. I’m going to hold out for one that is complete and known to be working. No rush on my part. Thanks again. BillT
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BillT My front park lights are not stock they are vintage truck clearance lights with what they call beehive lenses. I also changed to a dual filament socket before finding the Signal Stat 800 and ended up with one side just hanging dead. I am using a special small globe bulb sold by SPeedway motors that they sell for the Ford Model A tail lights its a 12V bulb that has a 53 sized globe but the dual elements of a 57 Bulb. SO not much help for you.
I suggest if your going with a Signal Stat 800 you just use the biggest bulb with a single element that will fit your socket. in which ever voltage your running.
One of the nice things about a Stat 800 is it has a flasher bulb on the end of the lever and if you move the Detente shield off center it goes into WAY FLASHER mode for emergency flashers.
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Thanks for all the tips guys.
I’m shopping eBay and waiting on a complete and decent looking unit. Still hoping a forum member may see this post and have a nice one for sale.
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Thanks for all the tips guys.
I’m shopping eBay and waiting on a complete and decent looking unit. Still hoping a forum member may see this post and have a nice one for sale.
Can't hurt to cast a wide net. I'll suggest checking with Harry Sheets, http://www.midwestwillys.com/, just in case he's collected any on the jeeps he's salvaged. There are also businesses that sell for other vehicles (this is a universal turn signal) so also try a search for "vintage turn signal" with and without the "signal stat" added in.
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Here is page 23 of one of my CJ3A builds. This shows a simple approach to keeping an original 3A look with added turn signals. (You can see a photo of the finished grill on page 25.) I used a Walck's wire harness and a standard turn signal switch that most of the Willys vendors sell.
https://cj3apage.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1191.330
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Rus and athawk11 thank you for the ideas and tips. I will get in touch with Harry next week, leaving on a weekend trip tomorrow.
Does Walck’s carry a separate wiring harness for turn signals? I installed his wiring harness a couple of years ago not thinking I would ever want turn signals. It would sure look good to have the same type wire covers for the turn signals.
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Bill, I just saw this, so I may be a little late, but yeah the Signalstat 800 is the way to go. Yeah, they are all going to be untested, because they are not easy to test and they probably don’t work anyway. That is the bad news, the good news is they are fairly easy to get working. Basically you just take it apart and clean the contacts and it should work. The only critical part is the spring the holds the stalk centered, it could be rusted and lose some of its spring. The other thing is the green bulb cover over the indicator bulb is often missing. I kept the original bulb sockets and grafted 51 base to amber LEDs, (but I think they are available online) for the markers, used a 6 v electronic flasher. I did need to replace the indicator bulb holder, but that was no big deal. Couple of photos of the insides and the instructions. I love mine.
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No you are not to late. I’ve been waiting on the weather to warm up some before starting the project. Thanks for the pics and tips on what the innerds look like and what to expect when opened up.
What did you do to get the front lights to work? Thanks.
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....Does Walck’s carry a separate wiring harness for turn signals? I installed his wiring harness a couple of years ago not thinking I would ever want turn signals. It would sure look good to have the same type wire covers for the turn signals...
I imagine Walck's could answer that question. I got my harness from Vintage Wiring. I've contacted them several times and have gotten a few items in addition to what I ordered to finish it off. What I ended up with is additional wires (in loom) to blend with the harness. The Parts Manual lists the turn signal as additional or special equipment/accessories:
GROUP 35-59--DIRECTIONAL SIGNAL LIGHTS
This includes the additional wiring harness (described as cable extensions) to make the additional connections.
I've read that Walck's makes their harnesses in-house too.
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Thanks Russ that’s exactly what I will do. I do want the wiring to match what I have.
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Did a couple of things, cleaned up the original sockets, if yours are too rusty you can buy reproductions that fit the grill holes, https://walcks4wd.com/Socket-Parking-Light-All-1946-49-models-and-1949-53-CJ3A-_p_837.html . That socket takes a #51 bulb, so I grafted a 6V led onto a #51 bulb base, but I think you can buy an amber led with a #51 base. Then I just followed the instruction sheet, you need to cut the wire between the parking lights and run a new wire to the right one, then, add your taillights. I used this flasher https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XSLDP53/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (make sure you ground it) since I was using LEDs up front. That is the general idea. I’ll do a couple more posts to address specific problems I had.
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I think this bulb should work, will give amber turn signal with the stock clear lens. https://www.ledlight.com/51-miniature-bulb-ba9s-base-6-volt-smd.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQjww4-hBhCtARIsAC9gR3a4hKrdVX1fOjpF9RDOFE5-A9TuI2PnFnhSEFTt8wTkAjqGeBBIce8aAjaqEALw_wcB
Now for the Signalstat 800: this is the indicator bulb cover you need if yours is (and it probably will be) missing
https://www.2040-parts.com/old-vintage-1940-039-s-50-039-s-switch-turn-signal-stat-800-replacement-light-cover-i1633782/
On mine the spring for the detents that hold the stalk centered was pretty rusty so I made a little spring to go over it to increase the tension a bit, that may or may not be a problem for you. The other problem is that the indicator bulb socket was too rusty to save, so I removed it with a Dremil tool and a burr. replaced it with a miniature bulb socket, don’t remember exactly sure which one. It is not self centering but works fine and is period correct, and even has 4 way flashers.
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You also asked about a wiring harness, that gets a little tricky. A STOCK 3A would have only parking lights and one taillight. To make the 800 work, you would need to add a socket for the flasher. If I remember correctly, the parking light wire goes to a connector on the fender and two wires come off of it, one to the left and one to the right, you would just have to disconnect the right wire and splice it to make it long enough to reach the switch. To add a second taillight you you would need to run a wire from one taillight to the other, and run a new wire from the switch to the new brake light. So if you spoke to them you would have to ask for separate SINGLE parking light wires and the standard rear signal light setup, since you will be using a single rather than dual filament bulbs in the front. If you told them you were using an 800 switch they should know what you are asking for. Good luck.
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Terry..... man I appreciate all of the info. So I can keep my original 6 volt single wire front light sockets and #51 bulb, correct? The front lights will still work as parking light, right. I have already added the second tail light.
I noticed the flasher you used is for an led bulb and is not available currently. Are there special flashers required for this installation or will any 6 volt flasher work? I noticed that SignalStat specs a flasher but I doubt that it is available.
Are the flasher pin socket configurations universal?
On edit - doing a little research on the parking light bulbs.
The SignalStat diagram calls for a 1129 bulb, if it’s too big then use a 81 bulb. You mention a 51 bulb. All three bulbs are available. Is the 51 bulb the go-to bulb? If so ... why, I do get a little curious.LOL Thanks
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Hmm Amazon says they are in stock https://www.amazon.com/Memotronics-ELF33-6-Signal-Flasher-Compatible/dp/B08SKT82JS/ref=asc_df_B08SKT82JS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=525305219006&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13555896089971519366&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1015226&hvtargid=pla-1330759323101&psc=1
I used them because I have LEDs up front and I was not sure if a regular 6 volt flasher would work. A standard 3 pin flasher socket will work. Yes you will have regular parking lights. The Signalstat 800 has 8 wires (a modern 900 only has 7) and each parking light has its own wire, so when the switch is centered current is fed to both lights, but when either left or right the flasher controls that light and the other light stays on. OK as for the bulbs, the Willys socket takes a 9s (9 mm) base which is a #51 bulb, they suggest a 1129, but that won’t work because the base is a 15s which is too large. I think this would work and give you a nice bright amber turn signal while keeping the original lens https://www.superbrightleds.com/catalog/product/view/id/204225/s/ba9s-led-bulb-4-led-ba9s-retrofit-car-classic-car-bulbs-ba9s-x4-x-xvac-car/category/3929/+volts-6V~ACDC+color-Amber+packamt-Single+beam-32°. The only question would be if it along with the rear would pull enough current to make a conventional flasher work, the electronic flasher would work for sure. Your #51 would work, but might be kinda weak, so you might want the brighter LEDS.
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FY... Here's a "bulb Chart reference" that I have found useful for comparisons...
http://www.taillightking.com/light_bulbs.htm
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Steve the bulb chart will be really useful. Thanks, I have saved it.
Terry crazy internet concerning the socket. The first link you sent say it is not available, the second says it is. Did you use led’s all around or only for the front?
I am getting my parts ordered and am anxious to get the signals installed. Will be the first Jeep I have had that had turn signals. No more unzipping windows and sticking the old arm out into cold or wet weather.
We are prepping for a RV road trip into Montana, Colorado, etc. and will begin as soon as we return.
Thanks again for your info.
Bill
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Bill, no I tried LED bulbs on the rear and they did not work, there was some kind of feedback, so both bulbs flashed when I used the turn signal, could not figure it out, so said “screw it” and went with incandescent bulbs and they work fine. 6 volt 1154 bulbs.
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Terry that’s good info and a time saver. I appreciate it.
Question on the front lights wiring. As I understand the diagram. I will remove the existing wire from the light switch that feeds the front lights. Then I will run the appropriate wire from the signal harness to the respective front light.
The light switch terminal, where the original front/rear lights were connected, feeds the voltage to the signal harness to energize the front and rear lights when the light switch is activated. And basically the same for the rear. Correct?
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Bill, no I tried LED bulbs on the rear and they did not work, there was some kind of feedback, so both bulbs flashed when I used the turn signal, could not figure it out, so said “screw it” and went with incandescent bulbs and they work fine. 6 volt 1154 bulbs.
i found using a heavy relay is the key, in my wife's wrangler with led rear tail light they blinked very fast, until the relay was installed at the lights
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On your headlight switch you run a wire from the parking light switch tap to the red/green wire of the switch, so the parking lights go through the switch. The green wire out of the Signalstat goes to the left parking light, the red one goes to the right light. I’m trying to remember, on the switch when you pull it to the parking light position, both the front markers and the taillights come on, when you put on the headlights the taillights stay on and the parking lights go off, I think. So the taillights don’t go through the switch, but the rear signals do. The blue and yellow go to the flasher, the blue is the indicator light the yellow powers the lights. On the socket I think yellow goes to P and blue goes to L the other terminal is power. The black and gray wires power the rear signal lights.
So: when you use the turn signal:
With lights off: one marker flashes with the taillight
With parking lights on : one marker flashes the other stays on
With the headlights on: one marker flashes the other is off ( I think)
4 way flashers, leave the switch centered and push the flat metal tab to one side.
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Tow hook thank you for the tip. If at a later date I decide to go with led’s I will certainly consider your approach. Thanks again.
Terry I can’t thank you enough for your assistance. Having never messed with turn signals or even had them I had not
paid any attention to how to install them. The sequence of operation is very helpful in confirming my thoughts on how they should work.
When we return from our trip i will start the installation and will be sure to let you know how it went.
Bill
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Looks like I waited to long to get my additional wiring from Walck’s. Bummer.