My Willys 3A and 3B Community
TECH FAQ SECTIONS => BODY and trim => Topic started by: farm1810 on July 18, 2022, 09:05:24 AM
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Hello all,
I have a CJ3A windshield that I am mounting on a M38 body. I adjusted the windshield pivot brackets to place the gasket / base just clear of the cowl battery cover. That placed the interior side of the gasket about 1/8" beyond the edge of the dashboard and allowed the exterior front edge of the gasket to clear the cowl battery cover by about 1/4". I just got around to mounting the interior clamps for the windshield. My problem is, at the lowest position for the dash bracket the clamp does not pull the windshield down tight. I am guessing I do not have something positioned properly as far as the windshield. It is a new cowl gasket from Walck's so I don't believe it is the gasket thickness. Ideas? Thanks
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Some added information. I went to the Bestop site seeking the measurement from the top of the windshield to the rear of the body. They recommend a measurement of 66 1/2 " from the inside - top of the windshield frame to the inside lip of the rear of the body, a few inches from the left / right of the tailgate. Mine measures 68 3/8". I cannot see how I can possibly lay it down more (tilt more toward the rear of the body). And, if I do make that move, the clamps are in a worse position to actually lock down. Baffled.
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Is this a reproduction tub or repop windshield ?
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It's a reproduction tub (M38) but an original windshield frame.
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Sometimes difficult to visualize what you have. Could you post a few images showing the seal clearances and the pivot bracket locatiions (under the cowl too - if possible).
It may be something simple or worse, like either the arms on your w/s frame are bent or maybe the holes in your tub might be a bit off.
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I agree with Russ. For starters make sure the cowl holes are in right spot.
Make sure you have low hood pivot brackets, not high hood.
Then you can check to see if the windshield tubes are correctly bent.
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Tried to upload photos yesterday, but for some reason I guess I goofed up Maybe the file was too large. I will post in multiple replies to lower the number of pics per post.
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Pics
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Pics
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Last one
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Plate under each pivot bracket is abnormal.
That suggests to me that the mount holes are in the wrong spots.
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I added those. The holes that were predrilled in the tube are beneath the two countersunk screws at the front of the plate. When I first mounted the windshield frame there were two issues. 1. The arms with mounting / pivot brackets attached was maybe 3/4' wider than the body at that point. I have since learned that some bodies have plates under the pivot bracket. Perhaps this is one, but the body tub as delivered had the pivot brackets attached with no spacer plate. I used the holes already drilled and used the mounting bolts to pull the brackets in tight to the body. With that done that put the front edge of the windshield / cowl gasket right on top of the cowl battery box cover. I tried moving the brackets in the slot and it still interfered with the batter cover. That is when I had a friend hold the windshield and I simply slid it back away from the battery box until there was clearance and only about 1/4" of gasket overlapping the dash side. That put the pivot brackets in the current location. The arms themselves were still too wide (although it was better since the body gets wider as it gets closer to the passenger compartment) and that led to the thickness of the spacers that you see. I guess I am going to move the pivot back to the original location and move the frame around to see if I can find a happy spot. I am still confused in that the Bestop website states a dimension of 66 1/2" from the top of the windshield frame to the inside lip of the body tub (to each side of the tailgate. Mine is about 68 3/8" on each side. It is interesting that in their instructions they have 66 1/2" for both CJ2A and CJ3A. 65 1/2" for MB. The windshield frames are very different in height from the cowl so I find that a bit confusing as well.
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Yes I understand why you added plates under the brackets.
I believe it is common for repop tubs to have narrow cowls.
Maybe better to go with a narrower repop windshield ???
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The pictures help a lot. And they created another "Deja Vu" moment. It took a while to find since we all tend to call parts by different names, but here's a recent thread on the same part:
https://cj3apage.com/Forum/index.php?topic=5392.msg40906#msg40906
I will guess that the parts factory that most vendors use have determined that the plate under the bracket isn't needed. I can't explain that mindset.
I don't know what the best solution is for the battery box lid, but I can actually see myself cutting a notch in the seal way before I start redrilling pivot bracket holes - as that could lead to other fitment problems (you've mentioned a couple so far). You can't be the first to have this issue so surely, someone else would have an example that shows the solution.
Oldtime's description of the narrow cowl may explain my issue with an aftermarket windshield. Initially, my original w/s had a lot of PO damage (a wildman with a power tool is a dangerous thing). I was offered an aftermarket w/s and took it. To make it fit on my original cowl. I had to bend the arms OUT to get them to straddle the cowl and connect with the brackets. It's now bent correctly to fit. In the mean time, I found a body shop that had the ability to fix my original; problem solved.
Initially, I thought your arms might have been bent in a way to allow more backwards lean, e.g. like too many people pulling on the w/s frame to get into and out of the jeep. Bending the arms sideways to fit the cowl was relatively easy - just a little at a time and it would align better with the cowl. However, since your actual issue is the opposite, a thicker spacer would make much more sense.
I'm not seeing all the misalignments you're having to work with but it's possible that pushinig the pivot backwards has tipped the w/s frame forward up at the top. Since you're comfortable with fabricating, try duplicating the original size/placement of the added plates and position the w/s without the seal to see if you can get it to sit on the edge of the upper cowl as it should and then use a spacer to duplicate the height of the seal to see if you're still having clearance issues. The diagonal slot in the bracket should allow enough available adjustment to give you the needed 66.5" for your TigerTop.
Added: Looking closely at your instrument panel "overhang" I don't see much there. Maybe it's more pronounced in person. Also, studying the pivot images closer, you've got both brackets adjusted full down. In my mind, that positions the w/s in a more upright position - lengthening the distance you're measuring for the TigerTop. Try repositioning the brackets where they are slid fully the opposite way - then remeasure and test battery lid clearance.
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Thanks for the effort in your messages. I truly appreciate it.
I moved the pivot mounts to the original holes, then tried moving back and forth in the slots. At the lowest position the cowl gasket clears the battery cover opening, but with the battery cover on, will not hinge past it. In the higher position, it is on top of the opening by about 1/2". Also, the dash clamps will not latch in either position. The windshield frame is far enough forward that the latches pop back out of the "hook" when fully latched. In looking at photos on line it appears the latch should be very close to vertical when locked. My frame is now far enough forward that the upper latch portion is on about a 15 deg angle. I think I will start at the latches to see if I can get them lined up then see where that brings out the hinge. If I move to where the latch is vertical, the cowl gasket with definitely clear the cowl battery box.
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Sounds good to me. The latches can serve as a "fulcrum" allowing the w/s to pivot where it best sits.
Either, 1) be sure to keep the bolts at the pivot brackets loose or 2) unbolt brackets from cowl but leave attached to arm and set the w/s to see where the holes "should be" (this is a replacement tub, right?).
Also, cross check when you get the clamps to appear vertical to see how close you are to the 66.5"
Thought of an additional place to look. This image attached shows the holes in the instrument panel for the Windshield Clamp Catch on my 3B. I'm not sure, but would like to assume you should also have slots - for adjustment - on a 3A/MC as well. This would need to be verified by someone else.
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THAT PHOTO IS INCREDIBLY HELPFUL! I got frustrated and drilled out the spot welds in the plates on my repro dash with that rib for the latch catch to grab. I need to lower the slots about 1/4" on both sides. Your photo shows the plate / rib about a 1/4" below the lip of the body attach to the dash or that is my observation. I have not reattached my plate / rib as yet but it will likely be much like yours! Thanks, that photo helps me confidence a great deal!
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Also none of the reproduction cowl/windshield gaskets are accurate. I bought 5 of them from different sources looking for one that fit a 3A/M38 frame and none of them would allow the windshield to fit where it should. Original tub and frame.