My Willys 3A and 3B Community
TECH FAQ SECTIONS => Electrical Systems => Topic started by: Mytwojeeps2020 on May 02, 2021, 11:20:25 AM
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The only fuse I can find on my CJ5 is inline between the ignition switch (Acc circuit) and the flasher (10 amp). There is no visible fuse on the light switch.
This fuse to the flasher blew, so I replaced it. It blew again.
Unfortunately, I can’t remember if it blew when I applied the brakes or turned on the headlights or used the turn signal.
All power is now lost to the rear lights. The headlights and front parking lights are working, but not the turn signals.
The PO had installed LEDs on the rear. After the fuse blew a second time, I figured it was a good time to replace the LEDs with traditional filament lights, which I wanted to do.
After disconnecting the LEDs and isolating the wires (no rear lights connected at all at this point), I replaced the fuse and this time it didn’t blow.
Before connecting the new rear lights to the three lines running to the rear, I tested the lines for power. No power on any of them.
I ran a straight line from the battery to the rear lights and they work fine.
All the wiring looks ok - no bare wires that I can see or feel.
All thoughts are appreciated!
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Here's the wiring diagram attached I use for my 62-DJ, even tho it says it is for CJ3B, and I believe it should basically be the same for your 61 CJ5. It shows 6V battery, but should be the same circuits with 12V as mine is. Only one wire, for both taillights low filament, should have power with light switch on. Bright filament is triggered thru the brake light switch both L&R, or turn signal switch circuit, L or R bulb with key on and turn signal switch engaged. BTW, LED lights use a different flasher to prevent quick blinking of LEDs. See if you have the stock flasher to go with the original style lights, or did the PO change it for the LEDs.
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The only fuse I can find on my CJ5 is inline between the ignition switch (Acc circuit) and the flasher (10 amp). There is no visible fuse on the light switch.
This fuse to the flasher blew, so I replaced it. It blew again.
Unfortunately, I can’t remember if it blew when I applied the brakes or turned on the headlights or used the turn signal.
All power is now lost to the rear lights. The headlights and front parking lights are working, but not the turn signals.
The PO had installed LEDs on the rear. After the fuse blew a second time, I figured it was a good time to replace the LEDs with traditional filament lights, which I wanted to do.
After disconnecting the LEDs and isolating the wires (no rear lights connected at all at this point), I replaced the fuse and this time it didn’t blow.
Before connecting the new rear lights to the three lines running to the rear, I tested the lines for power. No power on any of them.
I ran a straight line from the battery to the rear lights and they work fine.
All the wiring looks ok - no bare wires that I can see or feel.
All thoughts are appreciated!
Mytwojepps2020,
Your signature block shows "Olaf" a '61 CJ5 - is this the one you're working on? Do you have a Service Manual (SM) that covers CJ5/CJ6, e.g. SM-1002-R6 (early) or the SM-1046 (late)?
I see both have wiring diagrams for the CJ5. There are two wiring diagrams for CJ5 (up to SN 49248 and the other after SN 49248). In the late SM I see one additional wiring diagram labeled, CJ5 Late F4 Engine. In this third diagram I see an additional fuse between the 4-way flasher and the light switch (makes me think the flasher is actually mounted on the dash as opposed to part of the turn signal switch).
Since this is a relatively new jeep to you, finding which illustrations apply will help. I did flip back to the end of of that section in both and there was a test for the turn signal switch for both manuals. It may come to that.
So far the basics. The fuse didn't blow when you removed the rear LED lights - which were installed by the PO (some work had been done on that circuitry before you got it - there could be some "unknowns"). You ran a jumper wire directly to the tail lights. Did you check both wires into the lights to ensure both filaments light up?
In your testing without the tail lights, did you test the turn signal switch to see if the front lights would blink (left/right possibly faster than normal), is the flasher and turn signal switch working? If all is well, then power to the rear 3 wires will all need power to test. My thinking is: Power on, light switch on will power only the tail lights (should be one wire that splits into a "Y" at the rear of the jeep for both tail lights. Brakes will power the brighter brake light circuit - regardless of light switch position (that should account for the other two wires; one for left and one for right - so that the turn signals will work).
Which end you start from may not matter but you'll need to systematically work from one end to the other checking as you go (at each connection/terminal). At some point you're going to find a break in the current where one side is hot and the other dead. Check each connection to see if some are touching when they shouldn't or possibly loose.
Maybe someone else has had the same problem and knows where to look.
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Steve & Rus,
I do have the service manual, so no problem there. And yes, this problem is with the CJ5.
I was thinking that maybe the obvious was escaping me, and that I was missing a fuse somewhere.
Oh, well, I’ll start unwrapping the insulation today.
I’ll post the results when I figure this out.
Thanks!
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Ok, so I’m making some progress…some, anyway.
I restored the power to the rear lights after I replaced the turn signal.
When I tried to remount the turn signal to the steering column, it blew everything out again.
My probe shows that there is 12 volts emitting off the turn signal body, so when I touch it to the steering column, it blows everything out.
I followed the instructions that came with the turn signal, and rechecked them 1/2 dozen times.
Is it me, cheap Chinese parts, bad Chinese instructions, or a combination of all?
I’m still perplexed. Any suggestions?
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Ok, so I’m making some progress…some, anyway.
I restored the power to the rear lights after I replaced the turn signal.
When I tried to remount the turn signal to the steering column, it blew everything out again.
My probe shows that there is 12 volts emitting off the turn signal body, so when I touch it to the steering column, it blows everything out.
I followed the instructions that came with the turn signal, and rechecked them 1/2 dozen times.
Is it me, cheap Chinese parts, bad Chinese instructions, or a combination of all?
I’m still perplexed. Any suggestions?
Ironic. I had exactly the opposite problem where I couldn't get a ground on my turn signal.....
What's the brand or model of your new turn signal? What type turn signal did you have that you swapped out?
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Hi, Rus!
The only marking on the old turn signal was “Everlasting.”
I bought two new ones: one from KW and the other off Amazon. No reason to go into why I bought two - long story.
The one from Amazon is also marked “Everlasting.” Both are identical, that I can see, and so are the instructions.
Here are the pics
Thanks
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Ground and hot are switched somewhere. Case is grounded, and should not be hot. Try working backwards without the battery hooked up, from the 'mounted to ground' turn signal switch to each terminal looking for a 'short reading' on a multimeter. Then, check... did that terminal have power or ground hooked to it before, or per instructions? That is how I would approach it not knowing what all has been isolated already. Just a suggestion.
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Okay. They look alike. Google says the top one is an Omix ADA part number that some of the vendors carry. The bottom one from Amazon seems to come from China (had to look up Centaurus Electronics and that's what it said).
The good news is you've figured out the non-turn signal power to the tail lights. So that narrows it down to the turn signal. Re-reading your last post, you got the turn signal to work until you tried to mount it to the steering column, right? That sounds like a short - like Steve says, somehow the power is going to the casing/body of the turn signal switch. Opening the turn signal body will probably reveal a bad solder job or an unprotected wire.
I don't know how comfortable you are with opening up stuff just to see what's inside, but you could use the old one to test continuity (ohm meter) as a bench "lab rabbit". I'll bet both look the same inside. You may even fix the first one or if you're comfortable enough use it as a guide while you probe the newer one.
I ended up opening mine (no ground) and wound up running another wire from an added terminal out through the harness to connect under the dash. Mine is the Signal Stat 900 (black) discussed here:
Turn Signal Wiring on CJ3B.info (http://Turn Signal Wiring on CJ3B.info)
The only other suggestion I'd have is to return the newer one for replace or refund.
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Thanks, gents. All good suggestions! I’ll try again tomorrow.
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I have a similar, but different chrome turn signal with hazard switch, no brand or model on the casing. I performed the test I suggested, and found that "my dark blue wire" is the only lead "to casing ground" on mine, if that helps you any.
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Update:
Both turn signal devices worked fine, UNTIL I tried to connect them to the steering column, and then they grounded out and blew the fuse.
KW is sending me a new one. They told me they didn’t need the old one back, so I had a car electrician autopsy it. Inside, he found no insulating parts separating the power line from the casing, and two wires that were the reverse of what was pictured on the diagram. There was also a plastic part that connected various wires that he could not repair.
The new one should be in today, so I’ll keep you posted.
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It is becoming all to common that brand new parts are junk. Intentional to generate foreign trade, and local confusion and frustrations??? For example, LED lights are said to be good for 50K hours, but I don't get that kind of longevity out of the "circuits/transformers controlling the LEDs", so the light still becomes useless. The "new normal"? I hope not. Good luck with the next new one.
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I hear you…
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Update:
Both turn signal devices worked fine, UNTIL I tried to connect them to the steering column, and then they grounded out and blew the fuse.
KW is sending me a new one. They told me they didn’t need the old one back, so I had a car electrician autopsy it. Inside, he found no insulating parts separating the power line from the casing, and two wires that were the reverse of what was pictured on the diagram. There was also a plastic part that connected various wires that he could not repair.
The new one should be in today, so I’ll keep you posted.
They sent you a new one but didn't want the old one back..... They may know something they're not saying about their supplier. This isn't the first issue raised about Omix ADA quality but certainly isn't the worst of outcomes either. I'll use O-A parts if I have to but do look for alternatives if they're available.
The broken innards isn't surprising. The irony is, the next one you get may work for 10 years - trouble free. Keep the broken one for spare parts!
Hope they come through for you.
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Thanks, Rus. Happy 4th!
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Update and resolution:
The new TL900 turn signal came in (which I mentioned on another post). Very hefty, and appears very well made.
However, I didn’t install it.
I decided instead to mount the second switch from KW, which I had before the TL900 came in. We wrapped a rubber hose around the steering column as an insulator and the thing is now working.
The reason I did not use the TL900 is that my bill at the auto electrician was climbing astronomically. So, I went straight to surrender to save some $.
Like the first switch, KW quickly did a refund. So, I went through three of these switches before we got one to work (2 from KW, 1 from Amazon).
My guess is that the Chi Coms are slipping on the quality of their work…
Thanks again, all, for all your advice. I’ll reorder the TL900 (as you suggested I get, Russ) if this latest fix fails.
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Update and resolution:
The new TL900 turn signal came in (which I mentioned on another post). Very hefty, and appears very well made.
However, I didn’t install it.
I decided instead to mount the second switch from KW, which I had before the TL900 came in. We wrapped a rubber hose around the steering column as an insulator and the thing is now working.
The reason I did not use the TL900 is that my bill at the auto electrician was climbing astronomically. So, I went straight to surrender to save some $.
Like the first switch, KW quickly did a refund. So, I went through three of these switches before we got one to work (2 from KW, 1 from Amazon).
My guess is that the Chi Coms are slipping on the quality of their work…
Thanks again, all, for all your advice. I’ll reorder the TL900 (as you suggested I get, Russ) if this latest fix fails.
Wow! What a mess! Hope it holds up for a while!
Oh, and congrats on getting it to work!